# Understanding the CPP survivor’s pension

A question I’m often asked concerns how CPP benefits are calculated when someone is eligible for both a CPP retirement pension and a CPP survivor’s pension (commonly called a combined benefit).

Many people seem to be aware that these combined benefit calculations are subject to some kind of maximum amount, but what that maximum amount is, is clearly misunderstood. And being subject to a maximum amount is only a small part of the story.

In this article, I hope to help you understand the general process involved in the calculation and to clear up any misunderstandings, especially about the maximum. The calculation is relatively complex and although I’ve included most of the details, I’m not necessarily expecting you to calculate your combined benefit yourself.

## Three basic points to be aware of:

• Combined retirement/survivor benefits are subject to a maximum. The way this maximum is applied depends on the age at which you started your retirement pension.
• Even if adding your two pensions together would not exceed the maximum, you will not receive all of both pensions when they are combined.
• If you started receiving your retirement pension earlier than age 65, it will be increased by a special adjustment to offset some of the survivor’s pension that is “lost” as a result of the combined benefit calculation process.

## CPP survivor’s pension calculations

Before I discuss the calculation of a combined retirement/survivor’s benefit, it’s probably useful to understand the calculation of a survivor’s pension on its own.

There are two basic calculations for a CPP survivor’s pension, depending on the age of the surviving spouse:

• For a surviving spouse under age 65 (<65), a survivor’s pension on its own would be 37.5% of the calculated retirement pension of the deceased contributor, plus a flat-rate benefit. The flat-rate benefit is \$193.66 for 2019. Using this formula, the maximum <65 survivor’s pension for 2019 would be \$626.63 (37.5% of \$1,154.58 + \$193.66)
• For a surviving spouse over age 65 (>65), a survivor’s pension on its own would be 60% of the calculated retirement pension of the deceased contributor. Using this formula, the maximum >65 survivor’s pension for 2019 would be \$692.75 (60% of \$1,154.58).

## Combined benefit calculations

Now that you have a basic understanding of how a CPP survivor’s pension is calculated on its own, let’s look at how it is recalculated when you are also eligible for a CPP retirement pension.

When combining a CPP survivor’s pension with a CPP retirement pension, the survivor’s pension will be reduced from the regular amount described in Survivor’s pension calculations above, to the lesser of Option A or Option B, as follows:

## Option A

Under this option, when calculating the combined retirement/survivor’s benefit, the survivor’s pension is an amount that when added to the surviving spouse’s own calculated (or unadjusted) retirement pension, equals the maximum CPP retirement pension for that year (plus the <65 flat-rate benefit if applicable).

How this maximum amount works is commonly misunderstood. Many people think that if they start their CPP retirement pension early (at a reduced rate), they will be eligible for a higher survivor’s pension if/when their spouse dies. This is not true, since it is their calculated retirement pension amount that is used when calculating the combined maximum, which is not the same as their actual retirement pension amount, if they started receiving it earlier or later than age 65.

What this means, is (using the 2019 maximum of \$1,154.58 for an age-65 retirement pension):

• Someone who started their CPP retirement pension at age 60 (with a 36% reduction) would effectively have a maximum combined benefit as low as \$738.93 for 2019 (64% of \$1,154.58).
• Someone who started their CPP retirement pension at age 70 (with a 42% increase) would effectively have a maximum combined benefit as high as \$1,639.50 for 2019 (142% of \$1,154.58).

Let’s use an example. Andrew started receiving his own retirement pension at age 60. He is receiving \$448.00 per month (based on a calculated retirement pension of \$700.00, reduced by 36% for taking it early). His wife dies in 2019, when he is over age 65. Let’s say that her calculated retirement pension is \$800.00, so that Andrew’s survivor’s pension prior to being combined with his retirement pension would be \$480.00 (60% of \$800.00).

Under Option A however, the most that Andrew can receive as a survivor’s pension is \$454.58 (\$1,154.58 minus his own calculated or unadjusted pension of \$700.00).

## Option B

Under this option, the combined survivor’s pension is the normal survivor’s pension calculation as described in the Survivor’s pension calculations section above, reduced by the lesser of:

• 40% of the earnings-related portion of the survivor’s pension, or
• 40% of their own calculated retirement pension

Note: By earnings-related portion, I mean the 37.5% or the 60% calculated in the Survivor’s pension calculations section above.

Using the example of Andrew again, let’s look at how Option B works. As mentioned above, Andrew’s survivor’s pension prior to being combined would have been \$480.00. Under Option B, it will be reduced by the lesser of 40% of itself (40% of \$480.00 = \$192.00) or 40% of his own calculated retirement pension (40% of \$700.00 = \$280.00).

The lesser of these two amounts is obviously \$192.00, so under Option B, the combined survivor’s pension would therefore be \$288.00 (\$480.00 – \$192.00).

Since Option A resulted in a combined survivor’s pension of \$454.58 and Option B resulted in a combined survivor’s pension of \$288.00, the lesser of those two amounts is obviously \$288.00. Andrew’s combined survivor’s pension will therefore be \$288.00.

## Special adjustment to the surviving spouse’s retirement pension

As if the combined calculation wasn’t complex enough already, there is a “special adjustment” that applies if the surviving spouse started receiving their own retirement pension earlier than age 65. The effect of this special adjustment is to partially offset the actuarial adjustment that was applied to their retirement calculation, for any amount by which their survivor’s pension is reduced under either Option A or B above.

Carrying on with Andrew’s example above, his CPP retirement pension started at age 60, so this special adjustment calculation does apply to him. His uncombined survivor’s pension would have been \$480.00, but under Option B, it was reduced to \$288.00 (a reduction of \$192.00 as a result of the combined benefit calculation).

His special adjustment would be calculated by multiplying the amount of this reduction in his combined survivor’s pension (\$192.00) by the actuarial adjustment factor for his retirement pension (36%). The resulting amount of \$69.12 (\$192.00 x 36%) would be added to his retirement pension of \$448.00 as a special adjustment. His net CPP retirement pension would therefore be increased to \$517.12 (\$448.00 + \$69.12), making his net combined benefit \$805.12 (\$517.12 retirement pension plus \$288.00 survivor’s pension).

Note: There are special “‘grandfather rules” that apply to combined benefit calculations if the surviving spouse was born prior to 1933 or started their CPP retirement pension prior to 1998. Essentially this grandfather protection eliminates the 40% reduction described as Option B above, but it’s even a little more complicated than that!

1. cardhu

\$851.84

Good article … thanks for posting it.

• Bob

this is a good article so what you are saying is if I get the full cpp .. my wife only gets about \$800 before tax and should she pass away I would not get a percentage of her cpp … and the government gets to keep all the money that she had to contribute her entire working career … do you see what’s wrong with this whole scenario !!!

• Bob

if you are entitled to a percentage of your spouse’s cop as a survivor benefit, how much you receive should have no bearing on a survivor amount ….lets face it unless you are a government employee your cpp is pretty sad especially considering how much you contributed and what it would be worth if it was collecting interest !!!

• Doug Runchey

Hi Bob – I won’t argue with your main point, but how does being a government employee make any difference regarding CPP benefits?

• Connie Bisschops

My mother just passed away. She has no spouse,just 3 daughters. What happens to her money?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Connie – First, your mother’s Estate should likely be eligible for the lump sum death benefit of \$2,500. Second, if any of the daughters is still under age 18 or between age 18 and 25 and attending fulltime school or university, they would be eligible for a flat-rate benefit of \$255.03. Aside from that, any leftover contributions remain in the CPP account to pay benefits to other contributors.

• Jodi Shaw

I came across your article and I’m still having a hard time trying to understand all of this period period my mother passed away October this year 2 months ago my father applied for the death benefit and the survivor’s benefit and was denied both.. My mother stayed home to raise 3 children between 1973 And 1978 and even with the child reared provision they said my mother still didn’t contribute enough she contributed for 5 years but not enough.. My father worked his whole life and so he got CPP dis a CPP disability and benefits and Oas when he retired. I think it’s wrong that the government is basically cut my father’s income in half he lost \$1100 from my mom total. And is now a struggling senior like many other seniors in Canada close to living on the street so what is the point of cpp you have to have at least worked your entire life to get anything.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Jodi – My sympathies with your mother’s passing! Unfortunately, most people require a minimum of 10 years of CPP contributions in order for their spouse to qualify for a survivor’s pension or for the death benefit.

• Terry Bear

My spouse died when I was 46. I get survivors benefit. I retired at age 56. If I start collecting this year at age 60, i will get max CPP benefit because the survivors will boot me to that. I have been told that at 65 this will be recalculated but they, the CPP folks, will not tell me what I will receive from that point on. Can you tell me if i will receive less at age 65, and if so, how much less?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Terry – I have some bad news for you, and then I have some more bad news for you. First, I can guarantee that if you take your own CPP at age 60, your combined benefit will NOT be at the maximum amount. That is mathematically impossible. Second, I can also guarantee that your combined total will decrease further at age 65, generally by approx \$100. If you want to fully understand your 3 main choices, email me at [email protected], and for a fee of \$90 plus GST, I will give you accurate numbers.

• Grant wright

Thanks for this. Not sure.you will/can answer a question, will my Mom have to reapply when my my Dad passes ? What will she need to do ? Thanks for any info, during this odd time

• Doug Runchey

Hi Bob – You’re correct, except that the government doesn’t keep the money. It is used to pay benefits to other workers who receive more back from the CPP than they paid in. An example of this might be someone who becomes disabled early in life but lives a long time and then dies leaving a surviving spouse.

• Ron Thomsom

Hello I have a rather touchy question. My daughter’s common law husband committed suicide some 9 months ago. They never declared common law. He was 38 and she 42. He I believe paid into CPP at an earlier time. He has not paid taxes for some time.My question is ..can she actual get any
spousal support now. If she makes a commonlaw declaration now,(apparently) they lived together for 10 years. I know this sounds terrible.
He suffered from depression for many years. My daughter is afraid to ask for spousal support as she knows he passed away with tax debt and is afraid she will be liable for his tax debt if she applies. They did not live a high life and she is currently struggling financially. Any insight you may be able to offer would be much appreciated.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Ron – If they were living together at the time of his death and had been living together in a conjugal relationship for at least the one full year immediately prior to his death, then she should be eligible for a CPP survivor’s pension, assuming that he had enough CPP contributions, which is probably at least 7 years based on his age. I can’t tell you how such a claim would affect her tax-wise.

• Tammy

I just recently lost my spouse
I am receiving LTD by my employer. I am coming up to the two year mark and my private insurer is telling me that since I will not be able to return to work I must apply for my CPP Disablity, when I do that I now am considered combined benefits and would only be able to get max disability and my survival pension would be eliminated. A full disability would be only 1485.00 month how do you live on that? My mortgage is that amount.

• Doug Runchey

How much is your LTD now? Wouldn’t they continue to pay that same amount, minus the CPP disability payment. And by the way, you can ask them to pay the survivor’s amount and reduce the CPP disability instead, which should then increase your LTD accordingly.

• Lori

Hi Tammy
I was on LTD and applied for CPP disability after two year mark. I was also receiving CPP survivors benefit. So once accepted. I received LTD, which was cut in half then the CPP disability as well as my survivors benefit. The survivors benefit is still in full and the difference is made up with the disability benefit. They do not cut you off of your survivors benefit.

• Dave

Hi Bob,

I lost my wife last May in Canada. She was in Canada for 20 years but has never worked in Canada. so 37.5% of zero is zero but, am I eligible for The flat-rate benefit ?

I have one daughter below 18.
Thanks,

2. Doug R

Cardhu
Thanks for the comment, and thanks for your response to the gold star question. Not the answer that I have, but if you show me how you got your result, maybe I’m wrong?

3. cardhu

I must have missed a step … here’s what I did.

Andrew’s own pension is \$490.

The basic (uncombined) survivor pension would be 37.5% of \$800, plus \$176.95 … or \$476.95

The Option A maximum I took to be \$1012.50 less \$700 = 312.50 … (I think this is where I erred?)
The Option B maximum is \$476.95 minus the lesser of 0.4 * 700 or 0.4 * (37.5% of 800) … which is 356.95

The lesser of Options A & B was \$312.50

Special Adjustment would be 30% of (476.95 minus 312.50) … or 49.34

Total combined benefit of \$490 + 49.34 + 312.50 = 851.84

………………………………..

I think I missed a step in Option A … should it be \$1012.50 – \$700 + \$176.95 = 489.45 ?

In that case the combined survivor benefit would be 356.95, and the Special Assessment would be 36.00, so …

Total combined benefit of \$490 + 356.95 + 36.00 = 882.95

Any closer?

• Doug

Cardhu
You win the Gold Star and the free retirement pension consultation!
Just email me at [email protected], along with a copy of your current CPP statement of contributions and any “what ifs”. I’ll do the rest.

• David Galvin

cardu cites andrew’s pension as \$490 (70% of \$700) but you said his pension was \$448 (64% of \$700), which is the expected amount if he takes his pension at 60. Why the difference?

• Doug Runchey

Hi David – Good spotting! I think the problem is that when I originally wrote this article, I used the old rules (pre-2012) whereby the reduction for taking your CPP at age 60 was 30%. When I updated the article with 2016 rates, I also updated the age-reduction factors and that put Cardu’s answer out-of-whack.

4. simke

\$833.40

• Doug

Simke
Thanks for trying to answer the Gold Star question, but as you can see above, cardhu came up with the correct answer.

• Paul

If my spouse dies before they start collecting CPP, and if I want to defer payments until 70, is my deferred payment at age 70 based on my CPP pension plus the survivors pension all with a 42% increase in amount?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Paul – The CPP survivor’s pension is never increased based on whether or not the deceased contributor deferred their own CPP benefit, nor is it increased if the surviving spouse defers their own CPP. There is therefore never a reason to defer receiving a CPP survivor’s pension.

• Jordanna

Hi, I have a quick question – my spouse died 7 years ago so I already receive a CPP Survivors benefit; my intent is to delay CPP to age 70 as I plan on continuing to work until then. Will my CPP Survivor benefit increase to 60% at age 65 regardless of if I am entitled to take my CPP or does delaying my own CPP impact the survivor benefit amount at 65?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Jordanna – If you defer taking your own CPP at age 65, the survivor’s pension will convert to the 60% formula, but sometimes that results in an increase and sometimes it’s a decrease.

5. Bet Crooks

Only the government could come up with that last bit (the Special adjustment to the surviving spouse’s retirement pension). Every time they tinker they make the calculations more opaque. Good thing there’s people like you who can try to clarify these topics!

6. Victoria

I receive a survivor’s pension. I am having troubles figuring out what I will receive from CPP when I retire. It seems foolish to work longer when my own contributions are not fully considered.

• Don Samuelson

question if I start receiving my cpp 2021 at age 65 and my wife waits until age 70 will the survivor pension that either spouse receives be increased. Compared to both taking CPP at age 65

• Doug Runchey

Hi Don – The survivor’s pension that you would receive if she dies first might increase if she’s still working between age 65 and 70, but otherwise nothing would change.

• Michael Scott

Come on, Victoria! You’re forgetting the pure JOY of going in to work every day JUST to be with the people you love!!
(And to say nothing of your SALARY; surely that counts for something?)
Hope you made the right decision, CPP notwithstanding. 🙂

7. Doug

Victoria
I can truly understand your concern, and the whole issue of combined benefit calculations does really complicate the decision of when to apply for your own retirement pension.
I can probably help you with calculating your options if you email me at [email protected], but I do charge a fee for that service.

8. Alan

In your example and challenge question where Andrew is under the age of 65 when he becomes a survivor and starts collecting the combined benefit of 851.84. WHat happens when he gets to age 65? Does the survivors benefit get calculated again and will it decrease or stay at its current level?

• Doug

Alan
A survivor’s benefit is always recalculated at age 65, regardless whether it is part of a combined benefit or not.
The basic recalculation formula when it converts from an under-age-65 to an over-age-65 survivor’s benefits is that you lose the flat-rate portion (\$176.95 for 2013) but you get 60% of the deceased contributor’s “calculated retirement pension” instead of 37.5%.
For most cases this results in a decrease at age 65, but if the deceased was a maximum contributor (or nearly so) there can be a small increase.
In the above example, Andrew would reduce from the \$851.84 combined amount to the \$835.60 combined amount.

• Alan

It’s not a very big difference for Andrew. But for someone born in 1954 thinking about taking early retirement at age 60 in 2014 and is receiving a survivors benefit of 400 and has an estimated CPP benefit at 65 of 900 the difference is over a 100 less per month when he turns age 65. It doesn’t seem right that they would decrease the survivors just when you need it the most?

• Doug

Alan
You’re right about the survivor’s reduction being greater when the retirement pension is higher. If your age-65 retirement pension were max, you wouldn’t receive any survivor’s benefit at all at age 65 (although you would still be eligible for the special adjustment to your retirement pension, IF you took it early).
I generally try not to explain or defend the government’s rationale for things like this, but the only thing I’ll say is that the CPP was designed as only one part of the social security system. Most people become eligible for OAS/GIS at age 65, and I think that is the explanation for the different survivor’s calculation at age 65.

• Marcia

I just turned 65 last month and my April 2019 Survivor’s Pension was reduced and I didn’t know why until I read your information about the flat rate. My husband was 70 when he died and I was 62 at the time. Both of us had taken CPP before 65. Even with all your helpful info I don’t think I could ever figure out how the exact amounts I received before and after 65 were determined by CPP. Is CPP/Service Canada required to provide an accounting of their calculations to pensioner? I received no notice of the changed amount, let alone a copy of the calculations. I would really appreciate some guidance. Thankyou.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Marcia – Service Canada should provide you with a letter explaining their calculations if your request them to do so. I can perform an audit of their calculations for a \$90 fee is you email me at [email protected]

• Valerie

Thank you for explaining this very complex calculation. Like Alan, I was surprized by the size of the my CPP reduction on turning 65. I received no notification that it was going to change let alone by over 9% (the \$100+ you mentioned above). My question would be will the survivor benefit be reduced again at some point in the future?
Thank you.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Valerie – No, the good news is that once you’re over age 65 there won’t be any further changes except for the annual CPI increase each January.

• Giulio

Dear sir,my ex wife took part of my C.P.P.now she has died am I getting back the the portion that she received from me.Thank you

• Doug Runchey

Hi Giulio – The short answer is “No”.

9. Denis

My wife has been diagnosed with terminal cancer so I have been trying to determine my income level on her passing. Your article is the only trustworthy information I have found on CPP Survivor Benefits. If your calculations under Option B apply, specifically the reduction of 40% of earnings-related portion of survivor’s benefit, then NO-ONE who receives CPP pension will get more than 60% -(40%*60%)= 36% of spouses retirement pension, and under the other calculations could even get less! This is a far cry from the 60% benefit, up to the maximum retirement benefit, that is always quoted by CPP and others.
Am I correct?? In my case the combined benefit would be reduced from 1012.50 to 870.00 by this restriction.

• Doug

Denis
First, my sincere sympathy for you and your wife. I wish you both the best through this time.

As far as the combined survivor’s benefit calculation, you’re correct insofar as the 36% maximum. The only thing to remember is that it’s 36% of her “calculated pension” (prior to any actuarial adjustment), not necessarily the amount that she’s receiving (if she started in earlier OR later than age 65.

The only exception to the 36% maximum would be if 40% of the surviving spouse’s own calculated retirement pension was smaller than 40% of the deceased spouse’s calculated pension. In that instance, the combined survivor’s benefit could be somewhere between 36% and almost 60% (if their own retirement pension was very tiny).

It sounds like this exception doesn’t apply to you, but I thought I should mention it anyway, just so that the 36% maximum isn’t seen as an absolute figure.

If you wanted to email me at [email protected] with details of your and your wife’s CPP retirement amounts and start dates, I would be happy to try and validate your \$870.00 combined benefit calculation.

• Doug

To clarify an error in my response above (3rd paragraph), I should have said:
“The only exception to the 36% maximum would be if 40% of the surviving spouse’s own calculated retirement pension was smaller than 40% of the earnings-related portion of the survivor’s benefit.”
In that situation, the combined survivor’s benefit would be reduced by 40% of their own calculated retirement pension and the end result would be somewhere between 36% and 60% of the deceased spouse’s calculated retirement pension.
I hope this helps clarify a muddy situation, rather than muddying it further?

10. Denis

Thank you Doug for your sympathy and all your help in clarifying this awful maze, information about which is not available to the general public except here. Kudos to you for this website.
I am sure that a lot of bereaved people get a shock when they find out how little they get from CPP for a survivor benefit (I came across at least two Toronto Star articles highlighting the problem). For the record you did indeed confirm that my calculation was correct and I will receive \$870 and not the \$1012.50 which I was previously assuming based on CPP information. Better to know now than later. Thank you.

11. Sherri Finlayson

Thank you so much for this. I have asked both financial advisor and tax accountant for this information. Both did not have an answer.

12. Daniel

I have a scenario similar to the ones shown in this article, and wonder if you can help me understand how they apply in my case.

When I was 48, my spouse passed away leaving me with a survivor benefit of 541.41 per month. I’m about to turn 60, and so I’m considering whether I should start collecting my own CPP benefits. I understand that taking my CPP at this age means that my own benefit will be reduced by about 30%, but I suspect that 30% of my earned benefit plus my survivor benefit is close to the \$1,038.33 maximum benefit anyways.

I guess what I’m confused about is how my choice to take my CPP at age 60 effects my total CPP benefits … if I can expect to continue receiving 100% of my survivor benefit + 70% of my own earned benefit?

• Doug

Daniel

Unfortunately, receiving 100% of your survivor’s benefit plus 70% of your own retirement pension is never an option under the combined benefit formulas.

When combined, your survivor’s pension will always be reduced by at least 40% of the earnings-related portion of itself or 40% of your own “calculated retirement pension”.

And it would be reduced by more than that if your own calculated retirement pension (ie. the 100%) is close to the maximum of \$1,038.33.

If you want me to do some actual calculations so that you know what your choices are, you can email me at [email protected]. My fee for this service is \$75.

Shouldn’t the second paragraph be:

When combined, your survivor’s pension will always be reduced by the lesser of 40% of the earnings-related portion of itself or 40% of your own “calculated retirement pension”.

• Doug

It could be reduced by even more than that if bumping up against the maximum under Option A above.

I take your point though, that the reduction will be at least 40% of the lesser of those two amounts.

• Alan

Hi Daniel,
I built a spreadsheet that may be able to help you. See http://www.wiseoldcat.com/?q=node/24 . The Excel sheet can be found here. http://www.wiseoldcat.com/sites/default/files/CPP-planningV2.xls . Hope this helps.

• Doug

Alan

Great work! You lost me with some of what your spreadsheet does, but I played with it a bit and I’m impressed with what you’ve created.

One small point that doesn’t affect the combined total but may be an issue if you’re trying to reconcile with a T4 breakdown, is that the “special adjustment” is actually considered part of the retirement pension amount, not part of the survivor’s benefit.

Well done!

Hi Doug,

Question re: “Now that you have a basic understanding of how a CPP survivor benefit is calculated on its own, let’s look at how it is recalculated when you are also eligible for a CPP retirement pension.”

Does the recalculation apply:
– when you’re first eligible to apply for your own CPP (age 60), or
– at normal CPP retirement age (65), or
– when you actually start your CPP (any age between 60 and 70)?

If the latter, receiving a survivor pension and being well below the maximum CPP contributions may add a powerful argument to the case of not applying for CPP early and delaying it, possibly to age 70, in which case you postpone the reduction of 40% in the survivor’s benefit for some years, while your own CPP is adjusted higher.

• Doug

The combined benefit calculation occurs only once you’re actually receiving both benefits, and I agree with you that this generally changes the breakeven calculations in favour of taking your CPP at age 70.

For some people however, taking it at age 60 isn’t a bad decision, especially if their calculated retirement pension will be decreasing with not working between ages 60 and 65.

What seems to be totally obvious to me (based on all of the calculations that I’ve done) is that if you’re already receiving a survivor’s pension, taking your CPP at age 65 is almost never the best choice.

14. Cindy

Hi, I had a friend pass away. She was receiving a survivors pension from when her first spouse passed away. She had since remarried. Is her new spouse eligible for survivors pension on a % of the whole amount she was receiving or would it be calculated on just the CPP pension amount that she was getting on her own?

Thanks

• Doug

Cindy

Unfortunately, the amount of the survivor’s pension for your friend’s spouse will be based solely on her own contributions, and won’t include what she was receiving for her own survivor’s pension.

• Michael Scott

Thank goodness! Otherwise, I’m sure we’d see a serious up-tick in serial murders AND serial marriages. 🙂

15. Maurice

Hi Doug,
A friend of mine, who is a immigrant, but now a Canadian citizen, is currently receiving a “widows pension” of \$299.44 – which I presume is the same as a survivors pension? However, her deceased husband died abroad before she arrived in Canada, and never worked/lived here or contributed anything to CPP?
She is now 62 years old, working full time and under the impression that the above pension will cease completely when she reaches 65? I gather from your article that this will not be the case, but will be combined with her CPP when she decides to collect it? Your comments would be much appreciated.

• Doug

Maurice

If your friend’s husband never worked in Canada, the “widow’s pension” that she is receiving is definitely not a CPP survivor’s pension.

I suspect that it may be the “Allowance for a Survivor”, which I wrote about in a separate article: https://retirehappy.ca/understanding-allowance-survivor/

If it is the Allowance that she is receiving, it will indeed end at age 65, when it will convert to Old Age Security (OAS) and Guaranteed Income Supplement (GIS).

• Maurice

Hi Doug,

Many thanks for your explanation re probable “Allowance for Survivor”.
If acceptable, I will contact you direct in a week or so with a request for a follow up set of calculations re (OAS) (GIC) & (CPP), which I of course, realise will be billable.
regards

• Doug

Maurice

You can reach me directly by email at [email protected]. I look forward to hearing from you!

16. eileen Price

My husband and I immigrated to Canada from the UK in 1947. My husband worked in Canada from 1947 til 1968 and I worked from
1948 til 1968, when we took up employment in the USA. We
returned to Canada in January 2002 and have been receiving
pro-rated pensions–my husband

CPP \$146.47 and OAP \$275.77, myself CPP \$138.75 and OAP \$275.77.
My husband died on April 14, 2014 and I am now receiving \$138.75 CPP and 275.77 OAP. I was advised I was not entitled
to the \$2500 Death Benefit because we only paid into both
plans for three years within a certain time frame, but may
be entitled if we worked the required balance of years in
a different country. My husband worked for Continental
Telephone Co. in Virginia, U.S.A. from 1974 until December 31,
1982. Under a Canadian/American Treaty would that not entitle
me to receive some form of Death Benefit?

17. Doug

Eileen

I don’t know all of the specifics to the Canada/USA agreement, but’s here’s a weblink with some information on it: http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/services/pensions/international/countries/unitedstates.shtml

Have you applied for the death benefit and been formally rejected, or have you just enquired so far? If you applied and indicated on the form that your husband hand contributed to USSS, they should have automatically checked out to see if he would qualify through the agreement.

I should point out that \$2,500 is the maximum death benefit payable, and the actual amount is six times the amount of your husband’s “calculated retirement pension”, which would be the actual amount he was receiving if he started it at age 65, but it could be more or less than that if he started it before/after age 65.

18. Linda

Thanks so much for these insights to the CPP Survior Benefit. I am wondering if you can tell me how the survior benefit is affected if the pensioner takes the reduced pension at 60? Is it 60% of the reduced pension amount?

19. Doug

Linda

Good question!

The survivor’s benefit is 60% of the “calculated” or unreduced retirement pension, so it is not affected by when the deceased spouse decided to take his/her retirement pension.

20. Alan

Linda, are you asking if the survivors pension or the one time survivors benefit is reduced? The survivors pension that the survivor is receiving does get reduced if the survivor retires early. BTW – I just updated the Excel spreadsheet at http://www.wiseoldcat.com/?q=node/24 with the 2014 figures.

21. Victoria

Hi Doug, thank you for all information on your site. I wander if you an answer my question. My spouse just passed away and I applying for survivor benefits now. I am 53, working at the moment and paying LAPP. I am wondering how having LAPP will affect my pension+ survivor benefits in the future if I’ll take the reduced pension at 60 or 65 or 70. We are both emigrants and I only start working in Canada in 2005.

• Doug

Victoria

I’m afraid that I don’t know much about the LAPP pension rules. I do know however, that your LAPP pension won’t affect your CPP amounts, but I don’t know if the reverse is true.

There is no reason not to apply for your CPP survivor’s pension now, but you will certainly want to consider how the combined benefit rules will affect your amount in deciding when to apply for your own CPP retirement pension.

22. dave

hi there great stuff here.so much info. I am a little confused on survivor pension. I will make it short. I am 62 collecting my dear departed wifes surv. pension. and also my cpp. (approx. 1,000. I plan on retiring next year.manual labour has taken its toll. my question when I turn 65 how will this affect my cpp pension with my oas pension that I will get. thanks keep up the great work dave…

• Doug

Dave

When you turn age 65, there will definitely be a recalculation of your combined CPP retirement and survivor’s pension, and it will likely result in a lower amount.

At the same time, you should become eligible for OAS and possibly GIS (depending on whether you also have other income).

23. Kriztine

Hi!

How can we contact the the office regarding CPP Survivors Pension through email?
Thanks!

• Doug

Kriztine

I don’t think you can reach them by email, at least not for any personal details. The best way to reach them is by phone at 1-800-277-9914.

24. Nancy

When spouses are receiving OAS and one dies is there any survivor calculation for their OAS or is it stopped and the surviving spouse has only their own OAS going forward? If so. then couples who are living together on their respective CPP and two OAS payments will see the surviving spouse’s income drop considerably as she/he will lose not only CPP income when it converts to a combined benefit but all of the spouse who died OAS income as well.

• Doug

Nancy

There is no survivor’s pension under the OAS program, so you’re right that the OAS simply ends. If the surviving spouse has limited income however, they may become eligible for more GIS under the single pensioner rate table.

• Dave

And if as a result of the death the surviving spouse’s income rises into OAS claw-back territory, some or all of the survivors OAS would be lost as well.

Such a situation can easily arise when the deceased’s assets, transfer to the spouse and or pension splitting is no longer available.

While I doubt that too many will sympathize with such a survivor having that level of income, it is certainly unfair.

If both people were receiving max OAS and Max CPP the loss is huge. One full CPP and both OAS pensions could be totally lost.

25. Glenda

Dave, Why do they reduce the lower CPP (regular or survivor) by 40% when they do the calculation?

• Doug

Glenda

I wrote the article to ensure people understood how the combined calculations occur, but I can’t really answer why questions.

• Glenda

Dave

Thanks for the reply. I only asked the question because I will need to explain to my mother in law why they take 40% off of her (she is the lower income). She is obsessed that the government is ripping her off and that she worked hard for her money so why is she being penalized. Up until I found your information I couldn’t even explain to her how it was calculated. Thank you for your excellent website and explanations.

• Doug

Glenda

I tend to agree with your mother-in-law in this instance, but the only rationale that I could offer is that the CPP functions more as a group social insurance plan rather than as an individual pension plan.

Placing these restrictions on combined calculations when someone is eligible for both a retirement pension and a survivor’s pension is just one of the ways that the government ensures the solvency of the plan.

26. Darrell

My question is: I’m married to a Thai lady who is not a Canadian citizen so has no social insurance number..she has been to Canada several time and now has a multiple entry Temporary Residence Visa for 5 years which she is eligible to stay for 6 months at a time…then we go back and live in Thailand for the remainder of the year. Is she eligible for my CPP survivor’s pension.

27. Doug

Darrell

Yes, if you are legally married your wife would be eligible for your CPP survivor’s pension regardless where she lives.

• Hanney

I read the regulation to received Survivor’s pension. One must have SIN. If we do not have SIN. Is it possible to get survivor pension?

• Doug Runchey

Hanney – Yes, it’s possible to receive a CPP survivor’s pension without a SIN.

28. Claude

If you hadn’t continued to include age 60 and 70. I might have been able to understand this. However, what you did not tell about was what if you both retired at 65. Then what? Why do I ask? That’s easy. My wife recently passed away and my pension was reduced. I would be happy to have mine remain as it was. I can get along quite well on what I had. My pension amount was about 1/3 higher than hers.

• Doug Runchey

Claude

I’m a little bit confused by what you’re saying happened after your wife passed away. Your own CPP retirement pension would never change (up or down) because your wife died, unless you had “pension-shared” in which case your pension would revert back to only being based on your own earnings. Being eligible for a CPP survivor’s pension can never reduce your total payout from CPP.

If you were receiving OAS/GIS as a married couple however, your GIS might be reduced once you were considered as a single pensioner.

Can you give me more details so that I can understand what happened in your case?

• Claude

My personal CPP as deposited directly into my bank account dropped by about \$113 this month. My wife passed in December. We did not have a shared pension in any way and were not receiving the GIS.

29. Doug Runchey

Claude
I can’t understand why this would have happened. If you email me at [email protected] I’ll see if I can get an explanation for you.

30. John

Hi this is great. Very interesting to say the least. I am 64 and have been collecting a CPP of around \$700 per month since age 60 so a reduced pension. My wife passed away last year at 62 she was collecting around \$440 CPP also reduced.My question is Doug is is it worth me applying for a combined survivor benefit so close to being age 65? I also receive a Public Service pension (Fed) that is reduced at age 65 .

• Doug

John

Dave is 100% correct that you should apply for a CPP survivor’s pension immediately. It can be retroactive for up to 11 months.

If you had been receiving the survivor’s pension first, that should affect your decision of when to start your retirement pension.

If you’re receiving your retirement pension first however, there’s never any advantage to delaying receipt of a survivor’s pension.

• John

Thank you for your replies. I have contacted CPP and I do qualify for survivor benefits.I should recieve a benefit in a couple of months. Thanks again.

31. Dave

Hi, this is obviously a question best answered by Doug but as a keen observer of this blog/site I would have thought that the best approach would have been, following your wife’s passing to immediately apply for the benefit. I don’t see any upside to any delay.

• Claude

After patiently waiting to see what would happen in March, I now see that they have reduced my personal CPP by \$96 from \$965 to \$869. I got a letter from CPP about survivor benefits and the form shows that I should get the maximum. I called the funeral home where my wife and I had made our arrangements earlier and as part of their service they had had me fill out the forms for both a funeral expense and the survivor’s benefit. I started a call to the number given on their web site, but after finally getting in line, I realized that I would be holding on to the line behind several hundred people.

• Doug Runchey

Claude

I’m still willing to help you straighten this out if you want to email me. I’ll also participate with you on a 3-way telephone call with Service Canada, but I can’t guarantee that we’ll get through easily or quickly.

32. Dave

Hi Doug, you explained above,

“What this means, is (using the 2013 maximum of \$1,012.50 for an age-65 retirement pension):

• Someone who started their CPP retirement pension at age 60 (with a 30% reduction) would effectively have a maximum combined benefit of \$708.75 for 2013 (70% of \$1,012.50).”

Question, would the “special adjustment” be in addition to the 708.75 or is it included in it.?

Thanks
Dave

• Doug Runchey

Dave

The “special adjustment” would be in addition to the \$708.75. I know that it’s a bit confusing, but I worded it that way to indicate that you can’t assume that everyone’s combined maximum is the same.

33. dave jobb

I split my CCP for income tax purposes Will my wifes survivor benefit be based on my full pension

• Doug

Dave

Yes, if you are sharing your CPP pension with your wife, that sharing will end with the month that you die and your death benefit and survivor’s pension will be based on your full pension amount.

• Steve

So does that mean if you’re sharing CPP and the higher earning spouse dies, the surviving spouse’s CPP will revert back to their non-shared total and the survivor benefit (determined using the formulas in this article) added on? I would have thought that if you’re sharing 50/50, (lets say 700 each) and the high earning spouse dies, the low earning spouse still gets 700 plus 60% of the deceased’s share or whatever it comes out to after the calculation. Doug, can you clarify.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Steve – The pension sharing definitely ends when either of them dies. The survivor will receive their own pre-sharing retirement pension and a survivor’s pension based on the deceased’s pre-sharing retirement pension.

34. Nancy

i have an interesting scenario…
I was 33 when my husband died. We did not have any children. I was told I would collect survivor benefit from his contributions once I hit 65. Mind you, if I had had a child, I would have the survivor benefit now, and for the past 25 years. Then I was told I could remarry and still collect the survivor benefit at 65.
I am almost 60, and my new husband supports me while I manage he property and do volunteer work. I was going to take early pension, but I was told I would lose my survivor benefit. Is this true? I feel I have been discriminated long enough from losing a husband under the age of 35 and didn’t have a child at the time of his death. Can you provide some advice?

• Doug Runchey

Nancy

It is not true that you will lose your survivor’s pension by applying for your CPP retirement pension early. In fact, the exact opposite is true. You should become eligible for the CPP survivor’s pension as soon as you start receiving your own CPP retirement pension.

To make sure that happens, I suggest that you submit a new application for a survivor’s pension at the same time that you submit your application for a retirement pension.

• Debbie

What is the difference between survivor benefits and survivor pension. There are two different applications on line. I contacted Service Canada and they said it was the same thing. Thank you

• Doug

Debbie

I’d need to see the two applications to be sure, but survivor’s pension and survivor’s benefit are sometimes used to mean the same thing under CPP.

There is also the “Allowance for Survivor” though, under the OAS program.

35. Mike

Such great info. Do you know if the QPP calculations and criteria are identical? Their website is not as detailed in providing similar info. Thanks so much!

• Doug Runchey

Mike

I’m afraid that I don’t know that answer for sure. CPP and QPP had almost identical rules when they first started out, but they haven’t always made the same legislative changes since then.

36. Brett

Question:

You write under the Option A heading “Under this option, the combined survivor’s benefit is an amount that, when added to the survivor’s own calculated (or unadjusted) retirement pension, equals the maximum CPP retirement pension for that year (plus the <65 flat-rate benefit if applicable)."

Does that mean that the flat-rate benefit is always added in afterwards? Take an example of someone who can get the max CPP benefit (currently \$1065), takes it one year early starting in 2015 at 0.58% reduction per month, and is entitled to a survivor benefit (say he has already been getting it because spouse died a few years ago). His CPP base benefit is \$1065 – 6.96% x 1065 = \$990.88. Under option A for the survivor benefit, he gets \$0. But as he is under 65, he still gets the flat rate, currently \$181.75. In total that is \$1172.63, more than \$1065. I have looked at the CPP legislation, and I read it this way too. Though it seems odd to me that it could be possible to get more than that maximum. Is this right?

• Doug Runchey

Brett

You are 100% correct, except they would even get a little more than that by way of the “special adjustment” to their own retirement pension amount.

Of course the flat-rate portion would end when they turned age 65, and they would be reduced to the amount of \$990.88 plus their revised special adjustment.

• Brett

Yes, I knew there would be the special adjustment as well, but I left it out on purpose just to make the flat-rate thing clearer.

37. John Large

I receive a monthly combined benefit of \$901.75. I have a reduced Canada pension and a survivor benefit. Will this amount be reduced at Age 65? I am now 64. Thanks.

• Doug Runchey

John

Your CPP survivor’s benefit will definitely be recalculated at age 65, and that usually results in a reduction of a combined benefit at age 65.

You can try calling Service Canada at 1-800-277-9914 to see if they will estimate this recalculation for you, or you can email me at [email protected] and I will do so for a \$25 fee.

38. Blair Arsenault

Doug; Thank you for the insight info on Survivor Benefits. Altho I comprehended somewhat, I do have a concern. I am recieving Surivor Benefits from my partner since 2008 (520.50). I registered for early retirement as of Nov. 15, 2015.
I recieved in the mail, Allowance for Survivor Benefits and it was calculated from my 2014 empoyment income. As per the calulations from Service Canada: Survior Benefits decreases to 385.41 and my early CPP is calulated 310.54(Tl: 695.95). My question: What relevance does my 2014 income play into the calculation?. Is this “allowance….” just another way to confuse us poor Canadians.
Thank you
Still confused..Blair

• Doug Runchey

Blair

The Allowance for Survivor benefit is part of the OAS program, and like GIS, entitlement to it for any payment year (running from July to June) is normally based on your income from the previous calendar year. That means that your 2014 income normally determines your entitlement for the period of July 2015 thru June 2016.

I say “normally” because there is a provision whereby you can be paid on your estimated current income if you’ve had a reduction in your income due to retirement or a decrease in a pension etc. You should contact Service Canada at 1-800-277-9914 if this is your situation.

39. LauraH

Doug,

I just stumbled across your site, great information! I’ve been receiving a Survivor’s Pension since 2000 and decided to take my personal CPP at age 60. I’m now 61 (how did that happen?). Anyway, this is the only place I have ever heard that there is a recalculation of the combined benefit at age 65. Of course I’m a bit concerned about this so I’ll use the spreadsheet from wiseoldcat to try and come up with a number. Thanks again.

LauraH

• Doug Runchey

Laura

Yes, your combined pension will definitely be recalculated at age 65 and I suspect the result will be a decrease.

If you tell me what your survivor’s amount was immediately prior to applying for your retirement pension, plus tell me the combined total was after that(and how much each component was if you know), I will try to estimate your age-65 amount.

It will also be interesting if you called Service Canada at 1-800-277-9914 to get their estimate.

40. Rafique

Hello,
I am 62 years old receiving 470.00 spousal allowance. If I decide to apply for early CPP will this affect my amount of the above mentioned allowance? I have worked for 5 years and am wondering whether I should apply for CPP now or wait till age 65 when my spousal allowance stops.

Your input will be very much appreciated.

• Doug Runchey

Rafique

Assuming the spousal allowance that you’re referring to is the “Allowance for a Survivor” under the OAS program, the short answer is Yes it will be affected if you receive any other income, including your early CPP.

The good news is that this effect is somewhat delayed, as for instance if you start receiving your CPP in 2016 this normally won’t affect your Allowance until July 2017.

41. Tony

Doug,

My wife and I just got married. She has been receiving survivor benefits from CPP since her late partner passed away almost 8 years ago. She is 61 and currently drawing her own CPP as well. Is she still eligible for the survivor benefit now that we are married?

Thanks

• Doug Runchey

Tony

Yes, she is still eligible for her CPP survivor’s pension even after remarriage.

42. tracey-lynn kennedy

my husband just passed away over a month and half ago, i am only 43 with our daughter 16 just wondering what basicallly i will receive in surivors benefit with a child, i applied the end of november 2016 and how long will i recieve the benefit . thank you

• Doug Runchey

Tracey-Lynn

The amount of your CPP survivor’s pension depends on your husband’s lifetime average earnings since he was age 18. Assuming that he contributed for enough years, the minimum survivor’s pension for your age is \$183.94 monthly and the maximum is \$593.62. There is also a monthly child’s benefit of \$237.69 that will be payable until your daughter turns 18, or until she turns 25 as long as she’s attending school or university fulltime.

43. Lex

If my wife and I are each receiving the reduced (taken at 60%)MAXIMUM Cpp, how would the survivor pension (of one of us) be calculated/
Is there a maximum that it can total. Would either of us be entitled to ANYTHING?
Thanks

• Doug Runchey

Lex

If you’re receiving the maximum CPP for whatever age you started receiving it, you basically won’t receive any survivor’s pension unless you’re under age 65, in which case you’ll always receive the flat-rate benefit portion (\$183.93 for 2016).

At a minimum though, your CPP retirement pension will be increased by the “special adjustment” described in the above article.

44. Jessica

Hi Doug,

My dad passed away in December. My mom contacted me saying that she needs a copy of the death certificate and his SIN to apply for his CPP credits. My parents were common law until they separated in 1995, and my mom has since been remarried for several years. I’m not overly comfortable with this request, but is this something she can do, or is she “disqualified” since she was remarried well prior to his passing?

• Doug Runchey

Jessica

Your mom isn’t eligible for any survivor’s pension as a result of your dad’s death. I think what she wants to apply for is a CPP credit split, which is very different from a survivor’s pension. She’s far too late to apply for a CPP credit split though, as she would have had to applied within 4 years of the date that they separated.

There would be no harm in giving your mom a copy of your dad’s death certificate and his SIN, but there would be no benefit in doing so either.

• Dave

Jessica

Also,there is likely a one time CPP death benefit payable of up to 2500.00. The person responsible for your Dad’s estate should apply for it. I believe it has to be done within 60 days of death.

• Jessica

Thanks Doug! That’s what I thought.

Thanks Dave. I’ve already applied for the death benefit as trustee of the estate.

J

45. Tony

Hi Doug

Great work but I am a bit confused by the reduction factors used in your example. You state that Andrew’s wife died in 2016. You also state that Andrew began his CPP when he was 60. If he is now over 65, he would have had to begin his pension in 2011 or earlier (when the old early reduction factors were still in effect). Shouldn’t his calculated pension then be \$448/.7 =\$640 rather than the \$700 that you calculated (\$448/.64).

Thanks for the clarification

Tony

• Doug Runchey

Tony

You are 100% correct when you identify this flaw in my example. I thought it might be more confusing if I used the “old” reduction factor, but I see that it had the opposite effect. Sorry about that!

46. Dorothy Prickett

My head aches from these calculations which are obviously a make work project for bureaucrats. My husband died July 24th, 2015 at age 83 and was receiving CPP of \$1,037 monthly. I am 81 and received my own CPP of approx. \$650 since I took it at age 61 or 62. After their calculations I am receiving only \$298. of my husband’s CPP and I feel that is not right. I have written to our new finance minister to suggesst he looks into how widows are being treated under this scheme and hope he can do something in his new budget to help. Why cannot they have a simple calculation, a percentage of what he got without all the gobbgledeygook?

• Doug Runchey

Dorothy

I’m certainly not trying to justify the calculations, but I do want to ensure that everyone understands that it’s not as simple as saying that it’s both amounts added together up to a set maximum amount.

• Dave

I also agree with your comments but the issue is just not “widows” it is “survivor’s”. If your husband had out lived you he would have only received a max of about \$60 added to his amount. The calculations are extremely confusing and the CPP literature/website very misleading by saying ones spouse may receive 60%. I appreciate that “may” is a qualifier but it is nevertheless (IMO) very disingenuous.

My brothers wife died last year and he got 42% of her normal pension, making his total CPP now about 600 per mth. As Doug has confirmed in the past if you are collecting your own CPP it is impossible to get 60% of your spouses CPP upon their death.

• Dorothy Prickett

What the govt. does not realize is that the expenses for rent and bills are exactly the same when only one pension is received and yet I have much less than half what we both used to get. We both worked and paid into the pension so I think the govt. is not being fair to us to not give us very much back while they have nice cushy pensions at our expense. Rant rant!!!!!

47. Lawton

Hi Doug, what’s the main differences between the CPP death benefit vs CPP Survior’s benefit for a survioring spouse who’s older than 65 years old and isn’t receiving her own CPP (never worked in Canada). Thank You, Lawton

• Doug Runchey

Lawton

The CPP death benefit is a one-time payment intended to help with funeral costs. The CPP survivor’s pension is a monthly benefit paid to the surviving legal or common-law spouse for life.

48. Marie

Does the Post Retirement Benefit get included in any calculations. For example, if you retire at 60 but continue to work….

• Doug Runchey

Marie

Post-retirement benefits are not included in the combined benefit calculations, as they are paid in addition to the combined benefit.

49. ANNA MONK

I am perplexed; my tax consultant says I do not have to continue CPP payments when I turned 65 (I am 67 and still working full time). I currently receive a spousal CPP as I lost my husband May 2014. I don’t want to throw good money away. I am trying to work until I’m 70 so I can have my 35 year pension. I am at a loss to understand any of this.

50. ANNA MONK

I am NOT receiving my own CPP only the spousal CPP. I realize I probably will not receive anything other than the max so I will probably start receiving my CPP. Would it be better for my to still pay until 70 for the extra that would top it off? I am trying to have as much money as I can as a widow when I retire at 70.

Thank you.

• Doug Runchey

Anna

If your focus is maximizing your total income at age 70, don’t apply for your own CPP until age 70 and keep contributing to CPP in the interim.

51. Grace

How much will be my survivor benefit as my husband was receiving \$765.97 ?

• Doug Runchey

Grace

The amount of your CPP survivor’s pension depends on:
– what age your husband was when he started receiving his CPP;
– what age you are presently;
– whether you’re currently receiving your own CPP, and if so how much and when it started

• Grace

Mu husband started receiving CPP at age of 60 and after a few months he was receiving Disability CPP
I’m 61 and not receiving CPP

• Doug Runchey

Grace

If your husband received CPP disability until he turned age 65 and if \$765.97 was his CPP retirement pension amount, your CPP survivor’s pension will be approx \$471.18 while you’re under age 65 and \$459.58 after you turn age 65.

52. Grace

Ok, but I don’t why I just received \$331.28?

• Doug Runchey

Grace

I probably didn’t ask you enough questions originally. I assumed from your earlier comment that \$765.97 was the amount of your husband’s CPP retirement pension, and if so my earlier answer should be correct. If \$765.97 was the amount of your husband’s CPP disability pension however, then \$331.28 is the correct amount for your CPP survivor’s pension while you are under age 65, and it will reduce to approx. \$235.63 when you turn age 65.

• Doug Runchey

Grace

If you have limited income, you may also be eligible for the “Allowance for a Survivor” under the OAS program. Read this article: https://retirehappy.ca/understanding-allowance-survivor/

53. Shirley Carroll

Hi Doug,
I have somehow survived my husbands death of a glioblastoma multiform in his left temporal lobe ( he died 4 month after diagnosis), now both our boys have attended university and obtained their degrees….Steve would be so proud. So in december I turn 60….I thought I would apply for my pension until I read this:”What seems to be totally obvious to me (based on all of the calculations that I’ve done) is that if you’re already receiving a survivor’s pension, taking your CPP at age 65 is almost never the best choice.” So I should wait?regardless of the head explotion…should I wait.
Shirley

• Doug Runchey

Shirley – I’d need to do detailed calculations before I could give you any advice, and my fee for this service is \$90. If you’re interested, email me directly at [email protected]

54. theresa

Hello doug. super information and thanks! my question is.. my husband is on cpp disability benefits of 987.10 per month. He has ALS and i will soon be a widow.
Can I work a full time job and collect the surviver benefit until i retire? I am only 47 and he 49. We have 1 19 yr old son in university. Thanks Theresa

• Doug Runchey

Theresa – I’m sorry to hear about your husband’s situation, but yes you can receive a monthly survivor’s pension regardless whether you’re working or not. I would estimate the amount of the survivor’s pension to be \$441.77, plus your son will continue to be eligible for a monthly child’s benefit of \$237.69 while he’s under age 25 and attending fulltime university.

55. Dave

I’m also sorry to hear of your situation. Your own CPP decision making is still many years away but before considering starting your own at age 60 get Doug to do the math for you. Its likely to your advantage to delay starting yours until age 65 or beyond.

56. Cassandra

Doug I am a recent widow. I was already getting some of my husbands CPP as we were separated and he was in care. My CPP was small, so combined not a lot. Now he has died, after three months of waiting am told I get \$275 or so widows pension. However. I am in social housing, I get GIS and Trillium benefits. For about \$200/mo. I pay 1/3 of my income in rent. And this extra could make it taxable, which up to now I haven’t had to pay. Then I lose the GAINS and Trillium funds, so could be worse off. Next year should be able to think of getting out of social housing. So. Can I ask them to hold off getting the widows pension and have it later? Is there a penalty?

• Doug Runchey

Cassandra – Yes, you can ask them to cancel your CPP survivor’s pension as long as you do so within 6 months of receiving your first survivor’s payment and as long as you pay back any survivor’s amount received. When you want to reapply, you will be eligible for a maximum of 11 months retroactivity on your survivor’s pension.

57. Dorothy Prickett

Doug There is a weird and wonderful calculation for the amount a widow received from her deceased husband’s CPP but it means absolutely nothing if she is already receiving her own CPP because he too worked all her life. She can only receive a maximum amount of \$1,093 between both her own and her husband’s CPP> To add insult to injury when she received the \$2,500 towards funeral expenses that is added ot her income so the following year her CIS is reduced. This year for me that means a reduction of \$219.00 monthly which means I have to move from the apartment I have lived in for 10 yrs. It is so unfair to change the GIS based on a one time payment!!!!! They based their decision on a taxable income of just \$13,000 for the year 1915 when my husband died. Tghis does not seem right at all Can you please look into that??

• Doug Runchey

Dorothy – The CPP death benefit is not supposed to be counted as income for GIS purposes. Advise Service Canada that this has happened in your case, and your GIS should increase accordingly.

58. Natasha

If my friends wife died when he was 34 he was only receiving \$86.32. He recently turned 45 in sept 2016 but we just noticed he did not receive a payment this month.
Is there an adjustment period once you turn 45?

• Doug Runchey

Natasha – \$86.32 is too small to have been a CPP survivor’s pension under the circumstances that you describe, but “No” there is no adjustment when you turn 45.

59. cecile couture

my name is Cecile .my husband passed 22 years have un conjoint de fait .I was told that my CPP. would be lost unless I permit my conjoint to have access to it .the conjoint could do the same for me .Is there a special form that I would have to fill in order to have access to what is left of his pension after he dies.

• Doug Runchey

I don’t fully understand your question, but there is no form that you can fill out in advance that will affect any CPP survivor’s benefit.

60. cecile couture

Cecile Couture
I forgot to say that I am 66 y.o. and I am receiving cpp and oap (old age pen.)

61. Elsie

Hi Doug, very informative article. Thank you.
My husband became disabled at age 32 (he had been in university for a total of six years after age 18, which would affect his CPP total) and collected the disability pension until age 65.
Should he predecease me, would the fact that he collected disability rather than CPP for all those years affect the survivor’s benefit calculation?
Thanks.

• Doug Runchey

Elsie – The whole time that your husband was receiving CPP disability is excluded from his contributory period, so it doesn’t affect the survivor’s benefit at all.

62. Donna

I have a basic question which I cannot find an answer to on any website I visit. I have been in a common-law relationship for 10 years. I have been legally separated from ex-husband for 24 years but never officially divorced. I am being told that unless I divorce my ex-husband and marry my current common-law husband before I turn 60, he nor I will be eligible for any of each other’s Survivor or CPP benefit’s. I am 59 and he is turning 58. Is there any truth to this?

• Doug Runchey

Donna – No, there is absolutely no truth to this.

• Donna

Thank you so much! With all the new policies and having to use Phoenix and Services Canada – getting a straight answer anywhere is almost impossible and quite frankly, I’m getting too old for this. I feel bad for anyone who isn’t computer savvy or as informed as you are (myself included). Thank you for sharing your knowledge. There may come a day soon where I might like to hire you for more specific advise.

63. Gayla Nesbitt

It really makes it hard to know when to Retire! If I have a Survivors Benefit for the last 10 years and trying to figure out whether to retire at 60 or 65 how does one ever know what to do? I have no clue what my overall working years since I was 18 would be- how do you find this out? Maybe 23 years or so as I was a stay at home Mom for my children. What my own CPP would be -who knows again how does one find this out?

Thanks!

• Doug Runchey

Gayla – I agree that it’s a complex decision, and Service Canada isn’t always that helpful. You can obtain a copy of your “CPP statement of contributions” by calling Service Canada at 1-800-277-9914. Once you have that, you can email me at [email protected] and I will do the calculations for you (for a fee).

64. Vicki

HI. Just a quick question. In canada, do you have to be married for a specific length of time before the spouse can receive the others pension benefit?
Thanks

• Doug Runchey

Vicki – The short answer to your question is “No”, although there used to be a provision in the legislation (rarely used) that was intended to prevent “death-bed marriages”. Under that provision, a survivor’s pension could be denied if the contributor dies within one year of the marriage IF it could be established that the deceased person knew they were likely to die within a year of marriage. The intention of this provision was to prevent “fake” marriages, where the main purpose was to establish eligibility for a survivor’s pension. I’m not sure whether this provision still exists or not.

65. wayne

Great site that I just stumbled upon – getting a straight answer from Service Canada is like pulling hen’s teeth – so far, after several conversations (when I’ve actually gotten to speak with a rep.and not put on ignore), I haven’t received the same info twice – extremely frustrating.!
Please clarify for me if you can, am I correct in assuming that since I’ve been receiving \$1092./mo. from CPP since retirement in Sept 2016 at 65, I’ll be receiving no spousal death benefit at all? My wife passed in May/16,a month prior to her 65th birthday. She worked all her life as an RN and retired at age 61 and was receiving her CPP of \$660/mo. until her death. I’ve worked all my life, paying the max. cpp amount every year, as did my late wife. There seems to be something unethical about her estate losing all her cpp benefits that she’d paid into for 40 years and not being allowed to recoup even a percentage of it. Feels like the feds are ripping her off just because they can

• Doug Runchey

Wayne – Your wife’s estate will be eligible for the lump sum death benefit of \$2,500, but if your own CPP started at age 65 and is the 2016 maximum of \$1,092.50, unfortunately you won’t receive any of her monthly survivor’s pension.

66. Dave

Wayne, I obviously don’t have your complete financial situation but if you receive OAS and now have received your late wife’s income earning assets(RN pension, investments etc.?)which when added to yours, puts you over \$75000 per year, you’re going to lose some or all of your OAS because of the (OAS)claw back provisions.

In fact when both spouses receive Max CPP and Max OAS and one dies shifting earnings to the other then its entirely possible for the household to lose over 2200 per month. I’m not sure I would call it unethical but it is certainly wrong in my opinion.

67. Diana

I’m have been approved for Canada Pension disability my Canada Pension at 65 is \$865. I also have been receiving a survivor benefit of \$560 what would I recieve as a combined benefit

• Doug Runchey

Hi Diana – Your combined disability/survivor’s pension should be approx. \$1,313.66

68. Al

I qualified for the max at 65 but took the 30% penalty to start at age 60, (67 now). So by your explanation, grossing up my monthly benefit to 100 % I would get nothing from the survivors benefit.

However my wife who did take hers at 65 at 100% has benefits of \$443, signifcantly less than max so she would get a survivor’s benefit in spite of having paid in much less than myself.

So Basically CPP is really a taxation and re-distribution scheme based on supposed need, not contribution since those who paid in far less receive increases while those who paid in the max do not.

So you can imagine the words I have for our government calling this a pension plan.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Al – Although it’s true that you won’t receive any survivor’s pension, you will at least receive the “special adjustment” to your retirement pension.

• Al

By the way, thx Doug – your site was the only place I was able to garner any solid information in how to actually calculate a combined retire/survivor benefit.

The Gov sites were basically useless for this task … just vague and misleading.

Again thank-you.

69. joseff

Excellent info…my wife has a reduced CPP payment while I at 61 have not yet applied. If I were to pass away before applying what is the impact her CPP?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Joseff – Whether or not you have applied for your own CPP before you die, doesn’t affect your CPP survivor’s pension.

70. Janey

Yes, all that math hurts my head. I used to like math. I have not worked a lot and am recently back into the work force and don’t understand CPP. Is the government contributing to my CPP or are they just keeping my and my employers money safe (ha ha)??
I’ve seen a few things circling the internet. Is this true: A man’s daughter dies, she has no husband and no children. The father says that no one gets her survivor /pension? She paid into it, where does the money go?? Also if a spouse dies are you saying that the survivor does not get all of what his/her spouse put into it? Where does the money go that they and their employer put into it? How is that fair??

• Doug Runchey

Hi Janey – No, the government doesn’t contribute to your CPP. They just collect and manage your and your employer’s contributions. It’s true that survivor’s benefits are payable only if you have a spouse and/or eligible children. CPP is designed as a group insurance plan, so if you collect less than you have contributed, your excess contributions remain in the CPP fund to pay benefits to others.

71. Peter DeVries

Hello
I have a question related to a survivor benefit when the deceased had delayed CPP benefits.
It is not clear from the calculations if the survivor benefit gets any additional value whatsoever based on the deceased having delayed their CPP benefits (i.e. until age 70). Is the 42% increased value completely ignored in any subsequent calculations for the survivor amount?
I anticipate claiming the maximum CPP amount at age 70 and was planning that same year for my spouse to claim their reduced CPP at age 60 (approximately \$300). However it seems that if I were to die at age 71, any benefit of delaying my CPP benefits are lost in calculating the survivor benefit which changes some planning assumptions.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Peter – Sorry, but delaying your CPP until age 70 increases only your retirement pension and NOT the survivor’s benefits.

• Stan

What would be the difference if his wife were to defer until 70? Would that increase her survivor benefits?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Stan – If the wife deferred her CPP to age 70 this wouldn’t change the amount of survivor’s pension that she would later receive.

72. Mike

I am 63 collecting 788 per month. My wife will be turning 60 in April. At 60 she would collect 650, at 65 she would collect 1,015. We are trying to figure out if there is any advantage of waiting till 65 when she would collect 1,015. But if I die during those 5 years would she not collect a survivor benefit that would put her at maximum anyway. My thinking is might as well start collecting at 60.

• Doug Runchey

Mike – You better re-read this article. If your wife takes her CPP at age 60, her combined maximum will NOT be the same as if she takes her CPP at age 65.

• Darby

Is the amount your wife would collect at age 65 assuming she continues to work for five more years and continues to contribute to the CPP or does it take into account five years of not working?

73. jacob saji

My wife was passed away at the age of 34 and I have applied the survivers benefit and CPP. I got a letter from them saying that there should be minimum 6 years contribution required for benefit. as per records there is only 5 year contribution made (2011-2015), in that case where will go the contributions made ? any chance to get atleast the contributions given ?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Jacob – My condolences. When did she die? Did she have any earnings in 2016 or 2017? If not, you can’t get a refund of contributions. They just remain in the CPP fund.

• Keith Jones

My head is spinning!! Trying to work out survivor pension for my wife. I started taking CPP in 2013 at age 60. My monthly pension at that time was \$672.53.My wife started her CPP in 2014 at age 60 but has a very small pension of\$60.20. How much would my wife receive as a survivor pension if we are both over 65 at the time of my death? Trying to work on some figures for my work pension options so would appreciate a figure for my calculations.
Dazed and Confused!!

• Doug Runchey

Hi Keith – Your wife’s combined retirement/survivor’s pension will be approx. \$666.91 (in 2017 dollars).

74. BETTY SARDINSKI

Dear Mr. Runchey
While I do appreciate you taking the time to explain Survivor benefits above, I’ve tried many times to follow your explanation, but I’m not sure if I’m any closer to the answer. Could you please tell me if my calculation is close. I started taking CPP in 2005 at age 60. My monthly pension now is \$584.37. My husband started his CPP in 2005. His monthly pension now is \$694.37. If my husband passed away, how much would I receive as a survivor pension
I thought it might be \$86.40 + \$584.37 + \$178.92 = \$849.69.

Thank you and have a good day.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Betty – What age was your husband when he started receiving his CPP in 2005?

• BETTY

Good Morning

Sorry. We were both age 60 when we started taking our CPP.
Also, I believe I sent you the amount of \$86.40 to represent the 36% calculation and I think it should have been \$64.41
\$64.41
\$584.37
\$648.78
\$178.92
\$827.70

Thank you and have a good day.

Betty

• Doug Runchey

Hi Betty – First, the reduction factor for an age-60 CPP retirement pension that started in 2005 was 30% not 36%. That means that your “calculated retirement pension” is \$834.81 (\$584.37/70%) and your husband’s “calculated retirement pension” is \$991.96 (\$694.37/70%). That means that your survivor’s pension prior to combining it with your retirement pension would be \$595.17 (60% of \$991.96), but it’s limited to a maximum of \$279.36 (\$1,114.17-\$834.81) under Option A, which is a reduction of \$315.81 (\$595.17-\$279.36). Your special adjustment is therefore \$94.75 (30% of \$315.81) making your combined retirement/survivor’s pension a total of \$958.48 (\$584.37 retirement + \$94.75 special adjustment + \$279.36 survivor’s).

• BETTY

Afternoon Doug Runchey

YES!!!!!! Thank you every so much for explaining the calculations. My husband gave up trying to figure it out, so I’m very pleased to have been close. I’ll spare him for another day…hahaha..just kidding.
I’m sure many seniors are as pleased as I am that you’ve taken your own time to try and explained how the survivor benefit is calculated. I wish I could say the same for our government CPP web sites.

Thank you again and have a “SUPER” day.

Betty

75. carol siemens

I am wondering how it works if your spouse passes away and you have been living separately for four years.Does the widow /survivor benefits still make you eligible?also am still legally married,never divorced”

• Doug Runchey

Hi Carol – As the legally married but separated spouse, you could be eligible to the CPP survivor’s pension unless your spouse was living common-law with someone else for at least one year immediately prior to dying.

• Diane H.

Carol, this was my exact situation and I had very similar questions. Yes, I was eligible for my husband’s CPP widow survivor benefit (recently approved) as my husband had never entered another common-law relationship. We were still considered legally married, even though separated.

Depending on your age and income, you might also be eligible for the Old Age “allowance for the survivor”. It is available for survivors between the age of 60-64 who have a low income and are not in a common-law relationship or remarried.

Finally, I checked with Service Canada and even though I was separated from my spouse at the time of his death, my status for income tax purposes would now be considered “widowed”.

Hope sharing my experience helps.

76. Stacey

One area I didn’t see addressed in the post is when the survivor is under age 45. I’ve reviewed the website and can’t make sense of it. My husband passed recently and I am nearing 41. If I am eligible to receive benefits would they increase once I reach age 45? Prior to his passing he had been receiving CPP disability, I don’t know if this has any impact.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Stacey – Yes, this is a further complication that I hadn’t covered in this article because I was mostly trying to communicate how the combined retirement/survivor’s calculations work. If you’re under age 45 when your spouse dies, your survivor’s pension amount is reduced unless you are disabled yourself (the fact that he was receiving CPP disability when he died isn’t a factor) or unless you are looking after qualified dependent children. The reduction factor is 1/120th for every month that you were under age 45 at the time of your husband’s death. For example if you were exactly 41 when he died, you would receive the under age 65 amount, reduced by 48/120ths. This reduction continues until you reach age 65 or apply for your own CPP retirement pension.

77. Nick Boothby

23 Aug 2017. Hi Doug, I’m 76, delayed my CPP until age 70 & now get near the max \$1538.30 monthly. My wife turns 65 soon. If she delays her much smaller CPP until age 70, she too will get 42% more per month than if she starts at age 65. My big question is re CPP survivor benefits. As my widow, will she get a bigger combined maximum of her own CPP plus my survivor benefits because she delayed her CPP until age 70, or will it still be the combined maximum per year of only \$13,000? We can manage for a few more years to delay taking her CPP, if doing that will ensure she receives a bigger combined CPP monthly payment after my CPP & OAS income in no longer coming in. I’m happy to pay for your advice.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Nick – Assuming your wife is no longer working, she will be eligible for the same amount of your survivor’s pension regardless whether she starts receiving her own CPP at age 65 or if she delays it until age 70. If she is still working however, any increase in her CPP as a result of those additional earnings after age 65 may be offset by a decrease in the amount of her survivor’s pension. I’d need a bit more info to give you a more accurate response (for a fee). If you’re interested in this, email me at [email protected]

78. Joan

Hi Doug,
Now I’m really confused…
I’m 55. My husband was 58. He passed 4 weeks ago and always paid max cpp
I am currently on EI, stress leave. someone told me that I should take early retirement instead of going back to work of \$1000.00/mt.. and I would get more money per month. And no stress.
I don’t think I can Retire until 60?
Would it be wise to retire? Or should I try to find a high paying job, to make ends meet.
Hope you can help
thanks

• Doug Runchey

Hi Joan – My sympathy with your husband’s passing. If your husband was a max CPP contributor for most of his life, your CPP survivor’s pension should be around \$604 while you’re under age 65 and around \$668 when you’re 65 and older. I don’t know what they meant by taking early retirement, but you can’t receive a CPP retirement pension until you’re at least age 60 and the combined retirement/survivor’s pension rules will impact you at that time. Whether it will be better for you to apply for your CPP retirement pension at age 60, 65 or 70 will depend on the amount of your own CPP, your life expectancy and your other income sources. If you want some help in better understanding what your CPP retirement pension choices will be, email me at [email protected]. I do charge a small fee for those calculations though.

79. Paul Scott

Doug
Don’t want to confuse the issue but in a number of your examples where people have taken early CPP (age 60) you calculate their unreduced pensions as = early pension / reduction factor ( IE. age 60 pension / 0.64 = Calculated Age 65 Pension) – see Betty’s question above.
What happens if a person does not have 39 years of contributions (47 years less 17% dropout). Wouldn’t you have to add 60 additional \$0 contributory months (NCM’s) to the calculation to get a “correct” age 65 pension?
For example, my Estimated Monthly Benefits from CPP at age 61 indicates I would receive \$617.06 /month.
The next statement says, “If you were 65 today your pension would be \$866.66. This equals \$617.06 / 0.712.
However, as I am no longer working, if I wait 4 years to apply at age 65 would I not add 48 contributory months at \$0 earnings, which would result in my age 65 pension being less than \$866 (but no reduction factor would be applied)? Based on calculations from one of your other articles, my estimate is that my age 65 would be \$792 vs the \$866.
If this is correct, which is used for Survivor Benefit Calculation?

Thanks Doug. Your site & articles is a great help.

Paul

• Doug Runchey

Paul – Yes, you’re 100% correct regarding what would happen to your retirement pension if you wait to take it at age 65 rather than age 60.

For your question about the survivor’s benefit calculation, are you asking how it will affect the survivor’s benefit to your spouse when you pass away or are you asking how it will affect your combined retirement/survivor’s benefit after your spouse passes away?

• paul

When I pass away. How will impact my spouse?

• Doug Runchey

The survivor’s pension for your spouse will be more if you take your CPP at 60, because it would be based on your “calculated retirement pension” of \$866 rather than your retirement pension of \$792 at age 65.

• Paul Scott

Thanks Doug.
You have been a big help in explaining a confusing subject.

I will be contacting you soon via your DRPensions site concerning some detailed work.

Paul

80. Jeff Conron

Hi Doug, Thank you so much for providing some insight into the complex and murky adjustments that are made to determine what the combined amount of a survivor benefit plus CPP benefits a person might receive if qualified for both. I looked at formula on 58(2) of the CPP Act and it made my head spin so thanks for translating it into plain English. I have a simple question. Can an individual request Service Canada perform this calculation (similar to a submission of ISP1003A)? Is there a specific form that can be used? I cannot easily find it on the website. Thanks again and looking forward to your response.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Jeff – There is no form that I’m aware of, but I know that some people have received these estimates from Service Canada. I suspect that they either called 1-800-277-9914 or possibly wrote a letter. The one estimate that I’ve never seen Service Canada provide however, is the recalculation that occurs at age 65 if you take your CPP earlier than age 65. Without this number, the other estimates are somewhat meaningless.
If you want me to do these calculations for you, email me at [email protected]. My fee for this service is \$90, including a “breakeven” chart that will clearly show which choice is best based on how long you live.

81. Jeff Conron

Thank you kindly, Doug!

82. Wayne P.

Hi Doug ..

I retired at 55 & am currently 59 with no plans of entering the workforce again.

I currently get a survivor CPP benefit of \$310/month.

I got the vanilla letter from Service Canada about my pending CPP but it was solely based on my personal CPP contributions & didn’t incorporate my current survivor benefits, nor how my 10+ years out of the workforce at 65 would affect my CPP benefit.

My call in to Service Canada (on 2017November) netted the following info on my CPP monthly\$ estimates:
-starting at 60, I’d get \$723.22 for my CPP + \$220.95 Survivor CPP for \$ 944.17 Total CPP
-starting at 65, I’d get \$976.96 for my CPP + \$118.90 Survivor CPP for \$1,095.86 Total CPP

They did confirm that if I start my CPP at 60, the survivor portion will be recalculated at age 65. But they couldn’t provide an estimate what the revised survivor portion dollars would be at 65. It’s not optimal to make a decision, when I only know the \$/month from age 60-to-64 but don’t know the \$/month from age 65 onwards.

Based on the “start at 60 & start at 65” info, can I assume that if I start my CPP at age 60, the “my portion of CPP” will remain at \$723.22 till I die and the “survivor portion of CPP” from age 60 to 64 will be \$220.95 & then at age 65 onwards, the survivor portion would reduce to \$118.90.

ie.
Age 60 – \$723.22 for my CPP + \$220.95 Survivor CPP for \$ 944.17/month
Age 61 – \$723.22 for my CPP + \$220.95 Survivor CPP for \$ 944.17/month
Age 62 – \$723.22 for my CPP + \$220.95 Survivor CPP for \$ 944.17/month
Age 63 – \$723.22 for my CPP + \$220.95 Survivor CPP for \$ 944.17/month
Age 64 – \$723.22 for my CPP + \$220.95 Survivor CPP for \$ 944.17/month
Age 65 – \$723.22 for my CPP + \$118.90 Survivor CPP for \$ 842.12/month
Age 66 – \$723.22 for my CPP + \$118.90 Survivor CPP for \$ 842.12/month
Age 66 – \$723.22 for my CPP + \$118.90 Survivor CPP for \$ 842.12/month
etc

p.s. I’ve purposely ignored cost-of-living increase for simplicity

• Doug Runchey

Hi Wayne – No that’s not how it would work. I’ll try to take a closer look at your numbers in the next few days.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Wayne – I’ve tried to reconcile these numbers from Service Canada, but I’d need to see your detailed CPP statement of contributions to be successful. Your survivor’s pension amount of \$310 is also quite low. Did your spouse have limited earnings or are you received a reduced survivor’s pension (how old were you when it started?)?
If you want me to do actual calculations for you (for a fee of \$90), email me at [email protected]

• Wayne P.

Hi Doug,

My spouse worked for approx. 10 years full time before becoming a stay-at-home mom for our kids. My Survivor Benefit started when i was 54 (in 2013).

re: detailed calculations

Please confirm your CPP calculations would incorporate how my CPP benefits are combined with my Survivor benefits when starting each year 60-thru-65 and also take into account how my “less than 39 years years of working” would impact my CPP for each start year.

I’d also like the CPP benefit to show both the “my CPP” portion as well as the “Survivor Benefit” portion.

If you can offer that, I’d be happy to engage you for the detailed calculations.

Thanks Doug, much appreciated, Wayne.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Wayne – Yes, I can offer that service. If you can get your wife’s CPP statement of contributions, I can also validate that your present CPP survivor’s pension correctly includes the child-rearing dropout provision.

• Wayne P.

I ended up engaging CPP expert Doug (http://drpensions.ca/) for his full-blown “for fee” CPP analysis\estimates.

Superb service.

He had a question, he phoned me to discuss.

Doug dealt with all the complexities in my particular CPP situation. He addressed every specific question\request I had. Less than 2 day turn around start-to-finish. I received a report fully explaining how he got to his numbers & a full cumulative CPP\survivor benefit for age start years 60-thru-70. I couldn’t be more pleased & highly recommend his service for anyone with CPP complexities. I now have the info to make a knowledgeable decision. It’s a shame that my situation was too complex for Service Canada to provide this info.

p.s. Doug also found an error in my current Survivor benefit. It should be ~\$30/month higher & they owe me ~\$2K in past under-payments. I’ve filled out the correction form Doug sent me & sent it off to Service Canada for correction.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Wayne – I’m happy to have been able to help you, and thanks for the plug for my services!

83. Derrick

My dad past away one year into his retirement. What happens to his CPP pension that he paid so much into? Ive heard rummors of the one time pay out of 2500\$. If it’s true how does that happen,?? I don’t care about the money I just don’t think it’s fair that it goes to the government after 40 years of contribution. Please clarify if you can.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Derrick – Yes, there is a one-time lump sum death benefit of \$2,500 that is payable upon application by the Executor of his estate or whoever paid the funeral expenses or his next-of-kin. Aside from that there could be a monthly survivor’s pension if he had a spouse or common-law partner. There could also be monthly children’s benefits payable if he had any dependent children under age 18 or between 18 and 25 and in fulltime attendance at school or university. If none of those exist, any excess contributions remain in the CPP account to pay other contributors pensions. They do NOT go to the government.

Just to clarify for casual readers, the death benefit is 6 times the monthly pension, capped at \$2,500.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Adrian – Yes, you’re 100% correct and I should have said “up to \$2,500”. Although in another 11 months I will likely be correct, as that is one of the proposed changes to the CPP whereby the death benefit will be a flat-rate amount of \$2,500 effective 2019.

84. Joseph

Great article Doug however one answer I can’t find anywhere on the internet is if the CPP survivor benifit can be paid to a non Canadian spouse (wife or common law partner) residing overseas? Thanks in advance if you can enlighten us.
Regards,
JB

• Doug Runchey

Hi Joseph – Probably the reason that you can’t find the answer is because neither citizenship nor residence in Canada are factors that affect eligibility. You probably also haven’t seen anywhere that says whether a survivor’s pension can be paid to someone who likes green beans. The answer to both questions is a resounding “Yes”.

85. Drew Harris

Hi so much fascinating information.

Question…..what happens to the Survivor Benefits in the event of both Spouses perishing with a 10 year old Son still at home.

Thanks very much!

– Drew Harris

• Doug Runchey

Hi Drew – Assuming that both parents had sufficient CPP contributions, the child would be eligible for two “child benefit payments” (each a flat-rate amount of \$244.64 monthly for 2018) and the benefits would be payable to whoever had custody and control of the child until he turned age 18. He would continue to be eligible to the child benefits until age 25 if he was attending fulltime school/university after age 18, and the benefits would be paid directly to him during this period of time.

• Drew Harris

Hi Doug:

Wow that’s great. Further question – if I am already on CPP Disability now at age 49 how would that affect Survivor Benefit calculations?

My wife is also 49 and works and has CPP contributions currently.

Cheers,
Drew Harris

• Doug Runchey

Hi Drew – There is a similar restriction when calculating a combined disability/survivor’s benefit, but I didn’t include that detail because it’s not really discretionary (like the timing of taking a retirement pension is). I’ll look up the formula though, and try to post it shortly.

• Drew Harris

Hi thanks very much! Clear as mud!

• Doug Runchey

Hi Drew – You don’t expect much do you? I think I’ll wait until someone else asks this question now, before I bother to look up the answer.

Doug, Thanks for much for sharing the complexity formula. People will be able to properly plan their future income.

One question though. When reading through this the flat rate benefit is an additional benefit in Option A. Does it apply to Option B? I realize it does not apply to the 40% reduction part as that’s only “earnings-related”, but does it apply elsewhere in the calculation.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Brad – Yes, the flat-rate benefit would be included in Option B if/when the surviving spouse is under age 65. The starting point for Option B was the normal survivor’s pension (which would include the flat-rate if under age 65) minus 40% of the lesser of the two earnings-related amounts.

87. Judy Vaughan

I think that when a spouse dies, his family should receive a lump sum payment of all his contributions. It’s nit rightly that the government gets to keep that money. It wasn’t theirs in the first place

• Doug Runchey

Hi Judy – CPP is a group social insurance plan. The government doesn’t keep the money, it’s used to pay other people’s CPP benefits, as all other insurance plans do.

88. Ray Miron

My wife and I plan to start our CPP at age 60 and we both qualify for the maximum CPP less the 36% penalty. I am 3.5 years older than her. What happens if she passes away when she is 57 and I already started my CPP ? What happens if she passes away when she is 62 and I am 65.5 ? What happens if she passes away when she is 65 and I am 68.5 ?

• Doug Runchey

In your above comment “When you turn age 65, you would lose the flat-rate portion”, is that always at age 65, or is it at the age when your CPP retirement pension begins (any date between age 60 and 70)?

• Raymond Miron

Hi Doug, So If I take the CPP at 60 ( and she takes the CPP at 60 ) we will each receive approximately \$726.00 ( todays dollars ) and if she passes away after I am 65 I will continue to get my reduced pension of \$726.00 + ( 0.36 * 726.00 )of the Survivors pension which is approximately \$261.00 making my combined pension ( 726.000 + 261 = \$987.00 ) Is that correct ? Will they both grow with indexing until I pass away. What if we took our pensions at 61 would I get \$807 for my pension and her survivor would be \$290.00 making a total for me of \$1,097.00. Thanks

• Doug Runchey

Hi Ray – Not exactly. First, the starting point for the survivor’s pension is 60% of the deceased’s calculated retirement pension (before the age-adjustment factor), so 60% of \$1,134 = \$680. The “special adjustment” depends on the age that the survivor takes their CPP (regardless if/when the deceased took their CPP), so if you take your CPP at 60 the special adjustment would be 36% of \$680 and if you take your CPP at age 61 the special adjustment would be 28.8% of \$680. Make sense?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Ray – I forgot to answer part of your question. Yes, they will both grow with indexing.

• Ray Miron

Thx Doug So in simplistic terms as long as the survivor is at least 65 they will always get the same amount of their reduced pension be it if they started
at 60 ( \$725.00 ), 61 ( \$807.00 )or 62 ( \$889.00 ) etc…
the special adjustment will be \$1,134.00 * .6 = \$680 * .36 = \$245.00 as the special adjustment if the survivors age was 60 when they started to receive CPP Combined benefits will be \$725.00 + \$245.00 = \$970.00
, \$1,134.00 * .6 = \$680 * .28.8 = \$196.00 as the special adjustment if the survivors age was 61 when they started to receive CPP Combined benefits will be \$807.00 + \$196.00 = \$1,003.00
,\$1,134.00 * .6 = \$680 * .21.6 = \$147.00 as the special adjustment if the survivors age was 62 when they started to receive CPP Combined benefits will be \$889.00 + \$147.00 = \$1,036.00

• Doug Runchey

Hi Ray – It looks like you have all of the numbers correct now.

89. Ray Miron

Hi The lady at my government of Canada retirement training said that if I choose to take the CPP benefit early and I qualified for the maximum of 1,134.00 at 65 then the survivor will never bump it up any higher. so if I take CPP at 62 the amount is 62 ( \$889.00 ) and then my wife passes away the survivor portion will be limited to me only getting ( \$889.00 )

• Doug Runchey

Hi Ray – She’s partly right, but mostly wrong. If your wife passes away while you’re under age 65, you will receive at least the flat-rate portion (currently \$189.31) until age 65. Whenever your spouse passes away, your CPP retirement pension will be increased as a result of the “special adjustment”.

90. Celia

Thank-you so much for your very informative website. The current date is Dec 22 2018. I’ve been a stay-at-home mom for the past 20 years and I recently lost my husband. I’m debating whether to take my pension at age 60 or 65. Service Canada has been no help whatsoever! I’m currently 57 years old. I’ve done some calculations for the survivor’s allowance taking into account only pension income. Survivor’s allowance is not taxable but pension income is. I might be better off taking my own pension at age 65? I don’t know if my calculations are correct though, and I was hoping you could do a quick check for me. Here are the facts:

Current survivor’s pension of \$614

Personal pension at age 60: \$224
Personal pension at age 65: \$303

Taking my pension at age 60

Option A:

Most I can receive under Option A is \$1,134 – 303 = \$831

Option B:

\$614 – (37.5% of 614) = \$614 – 230.5 = \$383.75

\$614 – (37.5% of 303) = \$614 – 113.63 = \$500.37

\$113.63 is the lesser of the two so therefore the combined benefit under option B is \$500.37

The lesser of A and B is \$500.37 so this is my combined benefit. But there is a special adjustment if the surviving spouse starts receiving their own CPP before the age of 65.

\$113.63 x .36 = \$40.91

\$224 + 40.91 = \$264.91 my own personal pension.

Total combined pension: \$264.91 + \$500.37 = \$765.18

This is the amount I will receive -\$765.18 if I take my pension at the age of 60. This is an increase of \$150.18 every month . Over a 5 year period the amount will be \$9,010.80 in additional funds. Per year it is \$1,802.16 in additional funds. However, there is a survivor’s allowance, which is tax free. This is the game changer, I think.

If I take my pension at 60:

\$765.18 x 12 = \$9,182.16. Survivor’s allowance is \$648 per month

Yearly: (\$765.18 + \$648) x 12 = \$16,956
Monthly: \$765.18 + \$648 = \$1,413 per month

If I don’t take my pension at 60:

\$614 x 12 = \$7,380 Survivor’s allowance is \$790.20

Yearly (\$614 + \$790.2) x 12 = \$16,848
Monthly \$614 + 790.20 = \$1,404 per month

When I reach 65 :

My percentage of survivor’s pension increases to 60% so the total monthly survivor’s pension will increase accordingly but survivor’s allowance ends at age 65:

\$680 – (40% of 680) = \$680 – 272 = \$408
\$680 – (40% of 303) = \$680 – 121.2 = \$558.80

Lesser of the two is \$121.20 so the combined survivor’s benefit is \$558.80

Combined survivor’s benefit is \$558.80 + 303 = \$861— if I take my pension at 65

Combined survivor’s benefit is \$558.80 + 224 = \$782—if I take my pension at 60

I might be better off taking my pension at age 65?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Celia – I get some slightly different numbers than you do, but if your CPP retirement estimates of \$224 at age 60 and \$303 at age 65 are accurate, then I reach the same conclusion as you do regarding taking your CPP at age 65.

Taking the calculation one step further, wouldn’t it be better to start personal CPP at 70 instead of 65?

Delia wrote “Survivor’s allowance is not taxable” — is that the case?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Adrian – You’re right that age 70 would become the best option if Celia lives past approx. age 78, but the retirement pension numbers are fairly small so that it’s not a significant difference. And I thought that GIS entitlement might negate most of the difference.

Yes, the Allowances are non-taxable, the same as GIS.

91. Celia

Hi Doug,

Thank-you for your reply. Your numbers are slightly different? At first, I couldn’t understand how my pension could be higher at 65 versus 60 if I’m not working, but the people at service Canada explained that by taking my pension at 60, there is a reduction of 37.5%. Granted I do have savings in my RRSP and TFSA and if I had to rely solely on Canada pension, I would probably fall well below the poverty line. My plan is to start taking out \$15,000 per year from my RRSP once I turn 65 and any extra funds from my TFSA. I don’t know what the benefit would be to convert my RRSP to a RRIF since the taxation of each is pretty much similar? At that point,of course, I won’t qualify for GIS.

The survivor’s allowance ends at age 65 and as far as I know it is non taxable. In my situation, I don’t think it would make sense to postpone my pension until the age of 70.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Celia – Yes, all of your age 60 calculations are somewhat off, but not so significantly that they change the recommendation. My biggest concern with your retirement estimates is whether Service Canada has considered the child-rearing dropout. Just to clarify, the reduction at age 60 is 36%, not 37.5%. The 37.5% amount is used in calculating your under-age-65 survivor’s pension.

As I mentioned in my reply to Adrian, waiting until age 70 would be your best choice if you live past age 78 (if GIS isn’t an issue), but the difference is fairly small.

92. Celia

I have yet to receive my survivor’s pension so I’m not sure if it will be CPP or QPP. CPP is \$614 and QPP is \$910.48

93. Celia

Here’s some background:

My husband was born and raised in Quebec and worked there from the age of 18 until 22 (albeit part time while going through school). He then moved to Toronto and finished off his degree at U of T — this is where we met ;0) He stayed in Toronto and contributed to CPP until he passed this year. Would I receive the survivor’s benefit from CPP or QPP? My understanding is the the QPP survivor’s benefit is higher than the CPP

Here is a quote from the Quebec Pension Plan website:

Other eligible contributions

If the deceased contributed to the Canada Pension Plan, we take those contributions into account when determining entitlement to benefits and calculating the amount of the pension.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Celia – If your husband had paid into only the QPP, your survivor’s pension amount would be determined under the QPP rules. Since your husband paid into both the QPP and the CPP though, your survivor’s pension is determined under either the CPP or the QPP, depending on where you were living at the time of eligibility. If you were living in Quebec, it would be under the QPP and if you were living elsewhere in Canada it would be under the CPP. If you were living outside Canada, it would be based on your last province of residence.

94. Celia

Thank-you for clarifying that Doug! I was a little confused when the lady at service Canada said that I wouldn’t have to worry about collecting money from QPP because they would take care of it. My husband hardly made that much as a teenager and in his early twenties so I wasn’t really sure what she was referring to.

At the moment im \$258.03

• Doug Runchey

Hi Heather – You need to provide much more information. How old are you? What is the \$258.03 and how long have you been receiving it? Why do you think it’s going to change?

96. Celia

Hi Doug,

I found out my survivor’s pension will be \$604 per month as of January 2019. For some reason, the Quebec pension is included in the calculations even though my husband worked there as a teenager and early twenties. I have his employment history and the only years he didn’t contribute the maximum in Ontario were:

1985 — employment: \$13,571
1986 ” \$16,783
1987 ” \$20,086 all subsequent years until his passing in 2018, were maximum contributions years.

Does this seem right?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Celia – You survivor’s pension is fairly close to max, so I expect that it’s accurate (except that they probably haven’t included credit for his 2018 earnings if he had any). In order to validate the amount, I’d need to know his month and year of birth and the month and year of his death. I’d also need his earnings right back to age 18, including his earnings while contributing to QPP. Any calculations always include both QPP and CPP earnings/contributions.

• Celia

Thank-you Doug,

You are right, it is pretty close to maximum so I should count my blessings. I understand there are many people out there who receive much less. Anyway, I’m turning my sights to tax planning and how best not to get dinged by Revenue Canada

97. Celia

Sorry, I missed a year. In 1988, his employment income was slightly below maximum at \$25,665

98. Janice

Hi,
Thanks so much for your detailed explanations, much appreciated!
Can you clarify the issue around adjusted CPP and the child rearing provision. As stated before in options A or B, the surviving spouse’s own calculated (or unadjusted) retirement pension is considered in the calculation.
If I ask that certain years be dropped while I was on maternity leave and be replaced by the average of the 5 years prior to being on leave, is that considered an adjusted retirement pension or is an adjustment only if you take early CPP?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Janice – The child-rearing provision is considered as part of the calculated (or unadjusted) retirement pension, and it is just the age-adjustment factor for taking it early or late that I am referring to as an adjusted retirement pension.

99. Sonia

Hi Doug:
I lost my husband when I was 32. I was told by CRA that I was not eligible for the CPP survivor pension because of my age and the fact that I had no children. I would only be eligible at age 65. We had a house (mortgage)and I paid for his funeral (\$20,000). Bills that were due upon his death not 33 years later. I felt unfairly treated by the government but the tax laws prevailed.
Fast forward to present day, 12 years later, I am happily remarried (but still a bit bitter about the whole government rip-off :). However, I received a letter in the mail recently that I may now be eligible due to new tax legislation. I have sent in my application but have two questions – am I entitled to retroactive payments from the date of his death (i.e. 12 years) or only to a capped retroactive amount or?
Also, how will collecting a survivor pension affect me when I retire in 20 years or so? Can it negatively impact me? If so, please explain how?
Thank you

• Doug Runchey

Hi Sonia – There is no retroactivity to this change to the CPP legislation. You will be eligible to the survivor’s pension effective January 2019 only. Receiving the survivor’s pension won’t impact your own CPP in any way, but whatever survivor’s amount you receive now, it will be recalculated when you reach age 65 (sometimes it increases and sometimes it decreases, depending on how much your first husband contributed) and it will definitely be reduced whenever you apply for your own CPP. It’s a little complicated, but at least you’ll be receiving something now, which hopefully is better than nothing.

I’m 56 now and receiving a relatively small CPP survivor pension.
My plan, currently, is not to apply for my own CPP until I’m 70.
Will my existing CPP survivor pension be recalculated when I’m 65 or only when I start my own CPP?
Thank you!

• Doug Runchey

Hi Adrian – CPP survivor’s pensions are always recalculated at age 65, regardless if/when you take your own CPP retirement pension. To estimate what it will become, subtract the flat-rate benefit (\$193.66 for 2019) from your current amount; divide the remainder by 37.5% and multiply that result by 60%.
For example, if your current amount is \$350.00, it will become \$250.15 when you turn age 65 (\$350.00 – \$193.66 = \$156.34 / 37.5% = \$416.91 x 60% = \$250.15).

Thank you!

• Monica

Hi Doug,

Thanks so much for this website. You say that the CPP survivor’s pension is “recalculated at age 65” and that the new survivor’s benefit is:
((SurvivorBenefit – FlatRate)/0.375)*0.6
I take it that the lessor of Option A or Option B has already been applied. So is the Combined Pension now the NewSurvivorBenefit + (Actual CPP + Special Benefit)?
(Actual CPP is the CPP portion after being adjusted by the Actuarial Adjustment Factor)

Regards,
Monica

• Doug Runchey

Hi Monica – The formula quoted determines only the starting amount of the survivor’s pension at age 65 before it gets combined with the retirement pension. Using that amount as the starting point, you then apply the lessor of the Option A or Option B amounts plus the Special Adjustment to the retirement pension if applicable.

• Monica

So does that mean that for the survivor who later turns 65, his pension is that the same as if the survivor had been age 65 when the spouse died?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Monica – Yes, that is essentially correct.

101. Celia

Hello Doug,

I have a question regarding the survivor’s allowance. It’s my understanding that Revenue Canada will determine my eligibility for the survivor’s allowance at age 60 on the basis of the prior year income income tax return, which is age 59. The allowance is for 5 years. If I were to withdraw funds from my RRSP at age 64 would that have any effect on my entitlement to the survivor’s allowance?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Celia – Entitlement to the allowance for any “payment year” (which runs from July to June) is normally based on your income from the previous calendar year. For example, your 2018 income will be used to determine your allowance for July 2019 thru June 2020. Your 2019 income will then be used for July 2020 thru June 2021 and so on….

102. Celia

Okay, that’s what I thought. Survivor’s allowance ends the first month after turning 65, so if I were to withdraw funds from the RRSP or else convert the RRSP to a RRIF at age 64, it wouldn’t affect the survivor’s allowance because it will end when I turn 65. I do want to enjoy life before I’m too old or else succumb to a disease, if I wait until I’m 71, I don’t think it will be the same.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Celia – Converting your RRSP to a RRIF won’t have any impact at all, but although withdrawing from either your RRSP or RRIF at age 64 won’t impact your allowance, it will reduce any GIS amount that you might otherwise be eligible for when you start receiving OAS. Then again, you have to withdraw those funds at some time and whenever you do so it will affect either your allowance or your GIS.

103. Celia

I forgot to mention, my birthday is in January. :0)

104. Pat

I have a different kind of question. My spouse and I have been separated for 15 years, neither of us are living common law and we are still legally married. There is no ‘legal’ separation. We are both over 65. Should one of us pass away, is the other still eligible for the CPP Survivor’s Pension even though we don’t live together?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Pat – Yes, a legally married souse is eligible for the CPP survivor’s pension even if they are separated (legally or not), unless the deceased spouse was living in a common-law marriage for at least one year immediately prior to death, in which case the common-law spouse would be eligible.

105. linda

I don’t understand why my widows pension would drop now that I am receiving oas. my husband died in 2002. I am currently in a common-law relationship. 15 years. I turned 65 this year, he turns 65 next year. what new legislation gives the gov. the right to reduce my widows pension?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Linda – There is no new legislation involved. The formula for calculating a CPP survivor’s pension has always changed at age 65.

• linda

thanks doug.

106. Patrick

Thanks for the informative article Doug. I have been receiving a survivor’s benefit which for 2019 is \$508 since 2013 when my wife passed away. I was 53 at that time. I turn 60 in 2019 and I could take my CPP at a penalty of 36% which will according to my service Canada website would be \$720. Combined, these two amounts equal \$1228 which is greater than the maximum of \$1154.49. I understand I cannot receive more than the maximum so I see no reason not to take mine when I turn 60 this year, unless I am missing some detail here?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Patrick – You are missing the whole point of my article. You will not receive the combined maximum of \$1,154 if you take your CPP now. And if you do take your CPP now, whatever total amount you receive now will be reduced further when you turn age 65. You can check with Service Canada to see what your true combined choices are, but I have found them to often be unreliable or incomplete (they rarely if ever tell you in advance what the reduction will be at age 65 if you take it early). If you have trouble understanding the above formulas, I will calculate all of your main choices for a \$90 fee if you email me at [email protected]

107. Nick Boothby

Speaking as a three-years-ago consultee of Doug, I felt his very reasonable \$90 fee was an extremely good investment.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Nick – Thanks for the positive comment on both my pricing and my calculation results!

108. Peter

I have a friend who is 59 and enjoys working full-time. Her husband died 3 years ago at 64 and left her a survivor’s pension of \$485 a month. How may this amount be affected if she remarries at age 60 or later? If it makes a difference, she can afford to wait to take her own CPP (and OAS) until age 65 or later.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Peter – Assuming that the survivor’s pension that you’re referring to is from the CPP, it isn’t affected at all if she remarries. It will however, be affected by when she decides to take her own CPP and/or when she turns age 65. If she wants to fully understand these choices, she can use this article or I can do the calculations for her for a fee of \$90 plus GST. If so, she can email me at [email protected]

109. Dave C

Good article and thank you! Hopefully you can address my situation as calls to the government have been in conclusive:

I am 62 years old and reside in Quebec. I moved back here 2017 after 35 years living and working in Ontario. Prior to that I worked in Quebec for a few years.

My spouse died in 2005 when I was living in Ont. and have been receiving the CPP survivors pension since then which now amounts to \$589.00. My estimated retirement pension which will be paid by QPP is estimated by QPP to be approx. \$600 at 65.

IS IT SAFE TO ASSUME THAT I WILL RECEIVE APPRX. THE MAXIMUM TOTAL BENEFIT WHEN I TURN 65 OR IS THERE SOMETHING I AM MISSING OR MISUNDERSTAND?

THANKS FOR ANY LIGHT YOU CAN SHED ON THIS.

DACE C

• Doug Runchey

Hi Dave – If you were living outside of Quebec when you apply for your retirement pension at age 65, your CPP survivor’s pension would reduce to approx. \$393 when it is combined with your CPP retirement pension of \$600, for a total combined benefit of approx. \$993. I’m not sure how different it might be under QPP if you’re still living in Quebec when you apply.

110. Michael James

Hi Doug,

I have a question about the last 2 paragraphs of Option A (the Andrew example). I want to understand how these numbers change over time. Suppose his wife dies a year later (2020). Suppose also that CPI increased 1% and that average wages increased 2%. So, in 2020, Andrew is receiving \$448+1%=\$452.48, and I think his calculated retirement pension is now \$707, and hers is \$808. The maximum is now \$1,154.58+2%=\$1177.67. So, under option A, the most Andrew could receive is \$1177.67-\$707=\$470.67.

Do I have this right? If so, I assume the amounts in option B would adjust similarly over time.

Thanks,
Mike

• Doug Runchey

Hi Mike – You are correct. A very astute point!

• Michael James

So, as average wages grow faster than CPI, the effect of the option A maximum CPP cap becomes less over time.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Michael – That is correct, when that happens. For 2019 the reverse is true, because the CPI increased by 2.3% and the 5-year AYMPE increased by only 1.8%.

111. Fred

My wife has never had a paying job to pay into CPP in her own right and so has not got any CPP. Fair enough.

But the survivor benefit is comprised (as near as the words explain) of 2 parts … first a flat rate and then a second part calculated from the years of the spouse’s contributions. This would seem to imply that the CPP entitled spouse of a person who hasn’t earned CPP may be still entitled to the flat rate survivor benefit! BUT nowhere does it seem to say YES or NO to this scenario.

I am fully expecting to learn that the answer is hidden somewhere and is NO and that won’t disappoint me since it won’t change retirement finances that much … just that every penny does make things like house repairs a little easier.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Fred – I didn’t include the minimum contributory rules in this article, but in order to be eligible for any survivor’s pension (including the flat-rate portion) the deceased person must have made CPP contributions for either 10 years or at least one-third of the years of the “contributory period” (which starts at age 18 and ends with the month of death), subject to a minimum of at least 3 years of contributions. If your wife never made any CPP contributions, you won’t be eligible to any CPP survivor’s pension.

112. Fred

Thank you! I went searching the Official pages and couldn’t find this in the middle of all the mumbo jumbo … hence the question.

What a rats nest all this is … just like OAS and GIS! It’s so complicated that they can take months to approve it themselves. I’m still waiting at 4 months! My CPP was done in about 3 weeks!

113. Tom Z

I have been receiving survivors pension since 2013 and would like to know if I should take my own CPP at 60 or 65.
I currently would be at the max for CPP pension.
So question is will it be better for me to take my CPP at 60 vs 65?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Tom – I’d be pleased to do those calculations for you for a fee of \$90. If you’re interested in this, email me at [email protected]

114. Tom Z

I will be 60 in 2023

115. Daniel

I may have missed this info as the string is quite long, but for simplicity, if I have max CPP at 65 and spouse has max CPP at 65, and one passes on, what does the other receive? Anything more than their current max CPP?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Daniel – In simple terms the surviving spouse would receive zero survivor’s pension in this situation. In reality they may receive a small amount of survivor’s pension if the maximum retirement pension for the year of death exceeds the maximum retirement pension that the survivor has been receiving since age 65, escalated to the year of death by the CPI increases.

116. Rowan Graham

Hey Doug,
I am an Australian who married a Canadian and have only been in Canada 2 years this month. My husband (Canadian with CPP) passed at the end of January and I am swamped with the stress, grief and lack of information available to me (I am deaf) I am currently receiving around \$500.00 a month survivor pension and I believe his CPP does not become available to me until I am 55? Is this correct (currently 53) any info would help as I still have to address the tax side of all this as well.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Rowan – If you are already receiving his CPP survivor’s pension, there is no other CPP amount of his that you will ever receive (except possibly for the \$2,500 lump sum death benefit if you were the Executor of his Estate). I’m sorry if you thought that you would also receive a portion of his retirement pension from CPP.

117. Sally

Hello,
If someone is widowed at a young age (for example 36), how long does the CPP survivor pension payments last?
Thank you!

• Doug Runchey

Hi Sally – A CPP survivor’s pension is payable for life.

118. Renée

Hi Doug,
I am 55. I received a letter from Service Canada in April 2019 that my survivor’s pension was going up from \$8,48 to \$518,87 monthly… retroactively from Jan.1 2019. A huge increase… which I am very grateful for. I understand that this is not retroactive prior to Jan 1 2019… My husband died in 1999 when we were both 35 yrs old. When I started receiving the pension in 1999 it was around \$3,50. At the time I recall having called to find out why it was so insultingly low, and was given the runaround.. grieving and distressed, I just left it at that.

As I am researching this now… I am having trouble understanding why the amount was so low for the last 20 years… given that (as of 2017) the flat rate benefit was \$185.61, plus 37.5% of the deceased’s retirement pension. With a reduction of 1/120th for each month that the spouse or common-law partner is under 45 at the time of the contributor’s death…

I don’t know the amount of my husband’s CPP contributions between the ages of 18 and 35 (he worked steadily during that period) but given that the flat rate would be 185\$ minus 118/120th reduction (I turned 35, 2 months before he died… so 118 months before my 45th birthday). I don’t see how that would comes to only 8,48\$ a month?? Would appreciate clarity on this before I attempt to call Service Canada about this. KInd regards, Renée

• Doug Runchey

Hi Renee – The amount of \$8.48 isn’t that far short of maximum for your situation. The maximum survivor’s pension payable to someone who was under age 65 in 1999 was \$414.46 and that amount escalated to 2019 is \$605.41. If you take 2/120ths of that amount you get \$10.09. That means that if your husband had earned the maximum for every year from age 18 to 35, the most that you would have received after the 118/120 reduction is \$10.09 compared to your \$8.48.

• Renée

Hi Doug, Thanks so much for your quick reply and clarifying the situation for me. Your blog is an amazing resource …. much appreciated!

119. Paul

Hi Doug, such a complicated way to calculate this!

I’m trying to figure out what my wife might get if I pass away. I was eligible for max CPP at 65 and she was eligible for \$300 at 65. We’ve both delayed taking it past 65. Our plan to is to begin CPP Jan 2020.

What amount might she be eligible for as a survivor pension?

Paul

• Doug Runchey

Hi Paul – In simple terms, she’ll be eligible for a survivor’s pension of approx. 60% of your age-65 amount minus 40% of her age-65 amount, in addition to her own increased retirement pension.

120. Bob

Your reply to Peter DeVries is the only time I see a comment relating to CPP started later than age 65.
In your reply you note that the higher CPP received after 65 is irrelevant after he dies, as the survivor’s pension is based on the pension the deceased would have been eligible for at age 65.
However, in that conversation Mr DeVries also states that his wife is planning to take her own CPP at age 60.
You didn’t comment on this, but in reading the other exchanges – wouldn’t this be a poor choice? Better for her to delay and simply split his larger amount amount, and not suffer a double hit when passes away?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Bob – I’m not sure that I understand your point. Can you clarify and indicate what you think the numbers would be?

121. Bob

If she takes her CPP at age 60, then not only will her survivor pension be baselined at his age 65, but it will then also be reduced by the 36%.
Nothing can be done about the first, but if she waits until 65 herself, then the 2nd reduction won’t apply.
Given normal life expediencies, this would seem to be more optimum than her taking CPP at 60.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Bob – I’d want to look at actual numbers before I’d make any recommendation, but don’t forget about the “special adjustment” that she would get as part of the combination calculation, if she takes her own CPP before age 65.

122. carolyn stoddart

Hello Doug,
My husband and I are both considering taking our CPP benefits at age 70 for the larger monthly payments. We are both very close to the maximum benefit amount payable. If my husband passes away after the age of 70 and I am also over the age of 70, will I receive the same amount of CPP as well as a portion of his CPP? Or, because we are both so close to the maximum benefit, would I only receive a very small amount of his CPP as a survivor benefit? Thank you.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Carolyn – If you are both near the maximum retirement pension before applying the age-adjustment factor, neither of you will receive much in the way of a survivor’s pension when one of you passes away first. This is not then a factor to consider in deciding when to take your respective CPP retirement pensions, because if you’re both near-maximum contributors, neither of you would be eligible for much of a survivor’s pension regardless whether you each take your own CPP at age 60, 65 or 70.

123. Celia

Hi Doug,

I have a question regarding the flat rate portion for the survivor’s pension—does this amount change every year and would this change impact the amount current recipients get or is any future increase tied only to the consumer’s price index.

It seems incredibly unfair that survivors get roughly 50-60% of their spouse’s CPP entitlement. If anything, they should get the full 100%.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Celia – The flat-rate portion increase each year only inline with the CPI increase, as does the earnings-related portion.

• Celia

Hi Doug,

The CPI increase is added to the flat rate portion and that increases the total amount received? In other words, the amount received stays pretty much constant throughout one’s life.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Celia
I’m not sure that I understand what you’re really trying to get at but “No” the survivor’s pension does not stay constant. The amount of both the flat-rate portion increase every year, as does the earnings related portion, so the net amount increases every year, although the purchasing power would remain relatively constant.

But the calculation formula will change when the survivor reaches age 65, so the actual amount and the purchasing power will likely change too, either up or down.

The actual amount will of the survivor’s pension will also change if/when the surviving spouse applies for their own retirement pension as detailed under the combined retirement/survivor’s benefit formulas. This always results in a reduction.

So again, “no” the amount does not remain constant throughout one’s life.

• Celia

Hi Doug,

The flat rate portion and the earnings portion each increase by the CPI for that year?
I do understand that once someone reaches the age of 65 or else applies for their own pension, that the total amount will increase. However, in my case, it will never come close to what my husband would have been entitled to from his work contributions to CPP.

I did some math and I worked out what I’ll receive once I turn 65 and someone who has never worked a day in their lives will get more than me by simply collecting the maximum OAS and GIS.

124. Lynn

Hello
So what I’m understanding is that because I receive a survivor benefit and am unable to work at the moment and was told to apply for CPP disability. I lose part of my survivor benefit??

• Doug Runchey

Hi Lynn – This article deals only with the formulas regarding combined retirement/survivor’s pensions, but there is indeed a similar limit on combined disability/survivor’s pensions. I didn’t deal with it here because there is an element of choice in deciding when to start receiving a CPP retirement pension, and there is no such element of choice concerning a CPP disability pension. The short answer to your question however is “Yes” you will lose part of your survivor’s pension if you are approved for a CPP disability benefit.

125. Tarra

Wow great article very helpful! I figured out (thanks to you)what me pension would be, with the survivor cpp if I was 60. What do I changed to find out the difference if I should wait till 65 to collect? How do I change the calculations? If I am not contributing anymore does it make a difference. Thank you so much for explaining it!

My reduced pension is 282 full is 440. My husbands is 1154 (he is older so no reduced)

So survivor for a full cpp is 692.75 and 440 for my unadjusted pension equals 1132.75. So would this be the amount if I wait till 65 to retire?

I would get 861 reduced @60 and 1132 @65?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Tara – I don’t fully understand what you’re saying or asking. First, if you’re not working between age 60 and 65, the estimate of \$440 at age 65 could decrease to as little as \$395. Second, if your CPP survivor’s pension is \$692.75 it will always be reduced when it gets combined with your retirement pension.

• Tarra

Lol well I guess I will take my cpp at 60, as i am retiring when I am 58, thanks for that info! I just thought if I held out to draw on it I would get more. So the estimate they gave me is based on if I continue working the hours I currently working till 60, so actually it will go down as I am retiring at 58. Thank is not good Actually my husband will get his full pension and I will take my reduced which at 60 is 282. Full pension at 65 would have been 440, but I was not planning to work that long…. going to have to rethink things.

126. Celia

Just a quick update…I got a small boost in survivor’s pension this month. I think it has something to do with the last year of my husband’s employment which wasn’t factored into the calculation the first time around. I’m now getting about \$611 per month.

On another note, I don’t believe the proposed Liberal campaign promise to increase survivor’s pension by 25% will apply to anyone under the age of 65. It’s good to know however, that progress is being made on this front.

127. Jim Howe

One of the big unions has said that you can opt out of having a survival benefit paid to your spouse. The result is you can collect CCP at age 60 with the 36% reduction and apply for your death survival benefit to paid to you right away. Which when calculated on max values will top up your reduced pension to full pension amount at age 60. Your spouse will get nothing upon your death but as long as they are getting max CPP it won’t make any difference as they won’t get anything from your CPP had you not opted out as there is a cap of 1158 a month regardless of where it comes from. So neither spouse will be effected if both are at max CPP.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Jim – Nobody can opt out of CPP survivor benefits, so there is no truth to what this big union is saying at all.

128. Michel Horne

Love your articles and spreadsheets. I have one question. I plan on taking my CPP at age 62. If I wait until until 65 I am eligible for the maximum amount. Does me taking my pension early have any impact on the survivor benefit my wife would be entitled to receive?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Michel – The amount of your survivor’s pension is based on your “calculated retirement pension”, which is prior to any age adjustment factor is applied for taking it earlier or later than age 65. So the short answer is “No”, taking your CPP at age 62 will not impact the amount of your survivor’s pension.

129. Mark Ranch

Hi Doug I am divorced and aged 74 Canadian citizen living most of the time in SriLanka and living in a common law relationship with a 50 year old. I receive my CPP at the moment Will my common law wife who is living in SriLanka be entitled to a survivor benefit after my death. She is SriLankan and has never lived in Canada

• Doug Runchey

Hi Mark – Yes, she will be eligible as long as there is good evidence that she was living together in a valid common-law partnership with you for at least one year immediately prior to your death.

130. Matthew

If both spouses take CPP at age 70, and subsequently one spouse dies, is the survivor’s pension based on what the deceased received, or is it based on what they would have received had they taken CPP at 65? Is the same true for that part of the Option B calculation?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Matthew – Assuming that the deceased spouse had no employment earnings and CPP contributions between age 65 and 70, the answer is “Yes” both the basic survivor’s pension and the Option B calculation would use the age-65 amount. If the deceased spouse did have earnings after age 65, those earnings could increase the survivor’s pension but the age-adjustment increase for delaying until age 70 would not increase the survivor’s pension.

• Matthew

Thanks Doug, really appreciate the info!

131. Palojunior

Hey, if you are married to a Canadian citizen and she has been disabled for 10 years and now she is 65 she is receiving 1500 a month is she dies How can the surviving spouse get any money from the Canadian government while he or she has never lived in Canada but they are legally married, I am the surviving spouse and am in Africa How will I get any money from the Canadian government when she dies

132. Rudolph Graf

Hi there
I receive a survivor pension of 595 and I am turning sixty, I want to collect retirement pension also .. if i collected cpp at 65 i would 604.45. At age 60 i would receive 386.85. Would i receive the full amount of 981 or would it be less. I am confused with the calculations. Thanks Rudy

• Doug Runchey

Hi Rudolph – No, you will never receive all of both benefits, so you won’t receive \$981 at age 60 and whatever amount you do receive if you take it at age 60, it will be recalculated (usually reduced) once you turn age 65. I’d need more information to give you accurate figures, because even Service Canada’s estimate of \$604.45 at age 65 could be quite different unless you are still working and contributing. If you email me at [email protected], I can do these calculations for you for a fee of \$90 plus GST.

133. Paul

I am wondering if my spouse would be eligible, as I am now resident abroad and she is not Canadian.
Thanks

• Doug Runchey

Hi Paul – Neither of those two facts affect eligibility. As long as you contributed to CPP for at least 10 years, she will be eligible for a CPP survivor’s pension when you die.

134. Jelte Heerema

I retired in Oct 2013 at age 65 and started to collect my CPP that year. Since my first spouse died in 2007, I also received her survivor benefit along with my pension payment. I remarried in 2009 and she died in 2016 after collecting her pension at retirement in 2013 at age 63. 3 years later in 2016, she died. At that point Canada Pension Plan notified me that I was eligible for only one survivor benefit. I chose my latter spouse benefit because it was slightly more per month. Since then the survivor benefit is no longer being paid to me. Is there any reason why this survivor benefit is no longer paid out to me? what should I do to check this out? Is the benefit dependent on my declared income? For example, I sold a vacation property in Mexico last year in February and had to pay Capital Gains tax on the net proceeds which put my income substantially higher than in other years.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Jelte – No, the CPP survivor’s pension is not affected by your income, and I can’t think of any reason why it would have stopped. I suggest you call Service Canada ASAP at 1-800-277-9914 to get an explanation and/or have it reinstated retroactively.

135. Bruce

Hi Doug

Really appreciate your article on CPP Survivor benefits and your responses. My question is just on the basic rule of the “calculated pension amount”. My wife will not recive any CPP or very little at any point. But I am trying to decide if I should take my CPP early when I turn 60 next year. That amount is ~\$760. My full reftirement pension at age 65 would be \$1154. However the only obstacle that would prevent me from doing this is if I died before age 65; I understand from my financial advisor my wife’s survivor benefit/pension will be calaculated using the early retirement amount of \$760 and not the full amount of \$1154 when I die. However most aritcles and one of your responses to LInda above states “the CPP calaculation amount” is based on – not the current amount the deceased recieved at the time of his death – but the full pension amount of \$1154. Which is it? If my financial advisor is correct, this would encourage me to hold off on receiving my pension until age 65 so my wife’s survivor benefit would be higher.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Bruce – First let me assure you that your financial advisor is totally wrong in what he is telling you. I’m not sure that I fully trust the numbers that you’re using though, because \$760 is more than the max for an age-60 CPP retirement pension in 2020. And depending on whether you’re working or not between age 60 and 65 (and depending on your lifetime record of earnings) the actual amount at age 65 may be less than \$1,154 (at least in 2020 dollars). That being said, I’m going to assume that you’re not planning on working between age 65 to 65, in which case the survivor’s pension could never increase if you defer your CPP retirement pension until age 65, but it could actually decrease if your average lifetime earnings (and thus your calculated CPP) decreases.

• Bruce

Hi Doug.

Thanks for the quick reply. I did have my CPP estimates off. Here are the actual amounts in the letter from Service Canada:
Note I turn 60 in June 2021.

(estimates)
At age 60…..you could receive \$731.22
At age 65…..you could receive \$1,142.53
At age 70 ….you could receive \$1,622.40
Death Benefits
Your survivor age 65 or older could receive a CPP survivor pension of……\$685.52
Your survivor under age 65 could receive a CPP survivor pension of………\$625.79

Assuming I start my CPP at age 60. It is still not clear to me how much of a survivor benefit my wife receives if I die between the age 60 and 65. Here is an example:
– I begin my CPP at age 60 ie. \$731.22/mo.
– I plan to remain working full time to at least age 63
– I die at age 62 in 2023
– My wife is under 65 at the time of my death.Has no CPP earnings.

In this example, how is my wife’s survivor benefit pension calculated?
a) \$731.22 x 37.5% + \$197.34 (flat rate) = \$471.55
or
b) \$1,142.53 x 37.5% + 197.34 (flat rate) = \$625.79

If it is (a) …you can see why it would be beneficial for me to wait until age 65 to begin collecting CPP – as my wife is likely to outlive me (statistically) and she will have a higher CPP survivor benefit. But if the CPP survivor pension calculation is always based on the full CPP of the deceased at age 65, that is (b); there is no difference when I start from my wife’s perspective.

By the way this opens another question: what if I didn’t start collecting at age 60; and I died at age 62 – which calaculation is used above (a) or (b)?

Hope my question is now clearer 🙂

• Doug Runchey

Hi Bruce – First, let me assure you that there is nothing that you could do now that will have a significant impact on how much of a survivor’s pension your wife will receive after your death, especially not if or when you decide to take your CPP.

If maximizing the survivor’s pension is your primary objective however, the best time for you to take your CPP would be effective the month after you retire, because that’s when your “calculated CPP” would be the highest amount.

To further explain what your “calculated CPP” is, it is (ignoring the “enhanced CPP” for now) 25% of your lifetime average monthly pensionable earnings (AMPE), as calculated when you start receiving your CPP or if you’re not receiving CPP when you die, it is calculated at the time of death. The calculated CPP is the step prior to applying the age-adjustment factor if you take your CPP before or after age 65.

Let me use the figures from your Service Canada letter to try and explain a bit further. In that case, \$1,142.53 was your “calculated CPP” as of June 2020 when the letter was printed, and if you had died in June 2020 that’s exactly what would have used as a basis for the survivor’s calculation (except that’s not quite true because you would have had some earnings in the first 6 months of 2020 that might have increased that amount to \$1,150).

By the time you reach age 60 that amount might increase to \$1,160 and if you work until age 63 it might be as high as the max of \$1,175.83 (plus a little bit extra for the “enhanced CPP”). If you retire at age 63 and don’t take your CPP until age 65 or later, your “calculated CPP” may drop a little, maybe back down to \$1,160 with the two years of zero earnings from age 63 to 65. It won’t decrease any further if you defer until age 70, due to the over-age-65 dropout.

As you can see, your “calculated CPP” will only range from a low of \$1,142.53 to a high of \$1,175.83 (a range of \$33.30) over the next 11 years, so regardless if or when you take your CPP, the maximum impact on the survivor’s pension will be 37.5% or 60% of \$33.30.

In answer to your direct question, if you take your CPP at age 60 your wife’s survivor’s pension would be closest to choice b), plus a bit more.

I hope my answer is clearer now 🙂

136. Bruce Dowds

Hi Doug.

Hmmm…this is still confusing. I get it now that my CPP benefit is increasing as I continue to work after age 60 which I think is complicating my understanding.
Let me try just once more as this may help. Suppose I start receiving CPP at age 60 and I continue to work. I die the same year at age 60 in 2021 – say a few months after I get my first CPP payment; is the survivor benefit calaculation based on the \$731 amount or the full amount at age 65 – \$1142?

• Doug Runchey

If you take your CPP at age 60, any subsequent survivor’s pension will be based on your calculated CPP at age 60. That doesn’t mean that it will be based on \$731 though, because \$731 is the actual amount of your CPP after applying the 36% reduction for taking it early at age 60. It will therefor be based on the \$731 amount prior to that amount being reduced by 36% for taking it early. So it will be based on \$731/64% = \$1,142.

By taking it at age 60, you lock the survivor’s pension into being based on \$1,142 regardless whether your age 65 calculated CPP amount stays at \$1,142 or if it increases due to additional earnings or whether it decreases because you have zero earnings after age 60. It is very unlikely that your actual CPP at age 65 will be \$1,142 just because it was \$1,142 when you were age 59. The only way that would happen is if you earned 97.2% (\$1,142/\$1,175) of the YMPE for 83% of the period from age 59 to age 65.

So let me summarize, the CPP survivor’s pension will never be based directly on the amount of the actual CPP retirement pension that you are receiving, if that amount has been decreased or increased by the age-adjustment factor for taking it earlier or later than age 65. It will always be based directly on the “calculated CPP” which (ignoring the enhanced changes) is 25% of your average monthly pensionable earnings (AMPE), calculated either at the time that you first start receiving your retirement pension or at the time of death if you’re not receiving a retirement pension at that time.

For you, that means that your calculated retirement pension would have been \$1,142 if you had died in June 2020, it will likely have risen to approx \$1,150-\$1.160 by age 60 and it will continue to rise until you stop working at age 63 (which would give you the maximum possible survivor’s pension if you started your CPP then), after which time it will probably start to decrease slightly until age 65.

137. Bruce

Hi Doug,

I understand your answer. Thanks again. However I had a call with the CPP group at Service Canada today, I got a differnt answer. Spoke to Natasha – she said the calculation of the survivor benefit is based on the CPP amount being received by the deceased at the time of death. Hence if I died in 2021 just after I started taking the CPP at age 60, the calaculation is based on that amount I am receiving …hence the 37.5% + flat rate would calculated at 37.5% X \$726 + \$197.34. Now…if I was not receiving the early CPP at the time of my death ….the survivor benefit is calculated on the amount as if I was 65…that is 37.5% x \$1142 + flat rate (as my wife is under 65). So she would likely get \$200 more a month.
I asked Natasha at Service Canada where on the Governement’s website are these calculations spelled out clearly. She directed me the following site:

….but again is does not explicity state what amount is the 37.5% is applied to. She said it is implied the calculation on the CPP monthly amount the deceased is currently receiving.
Doug, I am digging into this deeply as this new info is making me want to wait to start my CPP — Iwas thinking starting it at age 60. But doing so will potentially disadvantage the survivor benefit signifcantly should I die shortly after age 60.

Really appreciated your help and insight.

I like to compensate you for efforts…can you send me an email where I can send a contribution.?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Bruce – I can understand your dilemma, but I know that I am right and Natasha is wrong. I’d suggest that you call back again and ask another agent, but from my experience you get the correct answer once out of every 8-10 tries, and there’s no way of knowing which answer is the correct one. My only suggestion to you is that if you know of anyone that took their CPP early at age 60, ask them to check on the My Service Canada Account website to see what their CPP survivor’s pension estimate is for a spouse over age 65. You’ll see quite quickly that it is much more than 60% of their current CPP (not including any PRBs), and it should be almost exactly 60% of their current retirement pension divided by the age-adjustment factor that was used whenever they started to receive their CPP.

My email address is [email protected]

138. Bruce

Thanks Doug. Lets leave it there. My gut aslo tells me your correct…otherwise this survivor pension benefit issue would come up more often in finnacial conversations as a deterrence to taking an early CPP.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Bruce – Thank you! That was very generous of you!!

139. Sally Timms

Hi Doug. I am 59 years old. My husband passed away December 2019 at age 66. I will be receiving the survivors benefit. I was laid off in June 2019 and have decided t9 retire altogether. My question to you is at what age should I apply for my CPP? I am happy to pay a fee for your answer. Thanks.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Sally – In my opinion, you should fully understand the numbers for at least the three main choices at ages 60, 65 and 70. My fee to calculate and analyze these 3 choices for you is \$90 plus GST. If you’re interested in this service, please email me at [email protected]

140. Patricia

Hi Doug,
Thanks for the detailed information. I am wondering what will happen if I delay collecting my CPP past age 65. I have been receiving a CPP survivor pension for some years now ( my spouse passed away at 43). Will I continue to receive this monthly survivor pension past 65 if I start collecting my CPP at age 68 for instance? (So for those 3 years would I continue to receive the survivor pension I have had these past 17 years?)
Thanks, Patricia

• Doug Runchey

Hi Patricia – Your CPP survivor’s pension will be recalculated at age 65 to the 60% formula instead of the 37.5% formula, but you will lose the flat-rate benefit of \$199.31. If your. As a result, if your current CPP survivor’s pension is \$531.49 or greater, the amount will increase after you’re age 65, and if it currently less than \$531.49 you will receive less after age 65.

141. Patricia

Of course I understand that my survivor CPP pension will be recalculated at 65 but will I continue to receive this pension after 65 if I don’t collect my Other CPP until later?

Thanks again,
Patricia

• Doug Runchey

Hi Patricia – If you understand that it will be recalculated, why don’t you think it will continue. Do you think it would make sense to recalculate and then stop it? To be clear, your survivors pension will continue after age 65 if you don’t apply for your own CPP retirement pension, but it will not be the same amount after age 65 as it was prior to age 65. It will be further recalculated if/when you eventually apply for your own CPP. The recalculation at the time of combining with your own retirement pension is always a reduction, and it could even be reduced to Zero if your retirement pension by itself is at the maximum rate for whatever age you start receiving it.

142. Patricia

Thanks for clarifying this. I thought that it would be recalculated when combined with my CPP at 65 but also thought that it would possibly stop being payed out as a separate survivor benefit at 65.

143. Valerie

Hi Doug,
a dear friend’s husband just passed away from cancer. He was only a few years into his retirement – maybe five – and apparently chose to received additional monthly income instead of opting for a survivor benefit. First, I did not know this was even an option. Sadly, his wife has no income. Does she have any recourse? If so, would you point me to where she needs to go to dispute this? Thank you.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Valerie – This is not an option under the CPP, so at a minimum she should be entitled to a CPP survivor’s pension (assuming that he made CPP contributions for at least 10 years). It could have been an option under some other kind of pension, although I’m not sure that he could legally select absolutely no survivor’s benefit if he was legally married. I have no expertise in this area though, so she probably should consult with a good pension lawyer.

• Valerie

Thank you Doug.

144. Diane Distefano

Hi Doug
My husband passed unexpectedly in 3016 at the age of 56 – I continue to work as a health care worker but am considering retirement next year at age 60 – and yes my head blew up with the explanation of spousal survivorship, combined and impending retirement – should I sit with an advisor to better understand the pros and cons to a retirement at age 60 with a unreduced + bridge pension

• Doug Runchey

Hi Diane – Yes, it probably would be good to see an advisor, but I doubt that they will be able to do the CPP calculations. I recommend that you email me at [email protected] and for a \$90 fee plus GST (total \$94.50), I will calculate and analyze your 3 main choices.

145. Debbie Cote

Hi Doug. I’m confused at the reduction of widows pension when I take my CPP. I currently receive approximately \$450 a month in a widows pension and have remarried 10 years ago. My CPP statement said I would receive \$395.99 if I take my CPP at 60 and \$618.73 if I wait to 65. I turned 60 last April 2021. If I went ahead and applied early (now) what would happen to my widows pension?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Debbie – If you take your CPP before age 65 your survivor’s pension will be reduced then and it will be recalculated (likely reduced) further when you reach age 65. I strongly suggest that you get accurate calculations before you make this decision. I will provide all of the relevant calculations for a fee of\$90 plus GST, if you email me at [email protected]

146. Rod Corkum

Doug, your example of “Andrew” helped a lot answering a question of approximately what would my wife get if I died today. I’m 70, she’s 69, and we both took our CPP at 65 although she didn’t work much so only gets a pittance, I’m almost full max. Statistically I’d probably die first so was working on some tax and investment projections and that was the one “hole” that I couldn’t fill. The exact number doesn’t matter but it allowed me to work out a reasonable estimate. Wasn’t expecting great numbers but if I died now, her survivor pension should be about 45% of my current CPP – because of her low CPP, the “option B reduction” is small. And losing one OAS, she would have a 50% cut in total government income. Fortunately we’re still both in excellent health (but that’s no guarantee of anything … my youngest brother died suddenly three years ago at 58!)

147. Judy

Hi Doug. I started collecting CPP at age 60. I’ll be 66 this year. My CPP is \$506.97 and OAS \$642.25=\$1149.22/mth My husband (66) still works full time and hasn’t started collecting CPP or OAS. If he collected at age 65, his CPP wld have been approx \$1172.49/mth. His CAAT pension would be \$5,050/mth if he was to retire now. If he was to pass away, I would get 60% of his CAAT pension. Would I be eligible to receive CPP Survivor pension? All very confusing.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Judy – Yes, you should be eligible for a CPP survivor’s pension and yes, it is quite confusing. Your combined retirement/survivor’s benefit should likely be approx \$1,030.37

• Judy

Thank you for your response Doug. Does the combined retirement/survivor’s benefit of approx \$1030.37 include the OAS, or is OAS a separate payment?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Judy – No, OAS is indeed a totally separate benefit and payment.

148. Lynda Plumb

Hi Doug
My husband died at the age of 95 …and received CPP OAS and a government pension….
I was on a disability pension ..but when l became 65 ..my CPP was reduced to \$200.0 month
because l was receiving a small amount…will l get a survivor’s pension…most of the questions were on younger people ..l am now 78 …if l get the survival’s pension ,will be reduced because of his age and receiving CCP for many years …

• Doug Runchey

Hi Lynda – My sympathies with your husband’s passing! Yes, you should be eligible for a CPP survivor’s pension, as long as your husband made enough contributions in order for you to qualify. Do you know how much he was receiving for CPP and do you know what age he was when he started receiving it? Just FYI, the amount of survivor’s is not reduced because of his age and/or how long he was receiving CPP before he died.

149. Celia

Hi Doug,

I hope you are well. It’s been a while since I’ve posted a question on this board. My husband passed away in 2018 and his CPP entitlement, assuming he worked until the age of 65 was \$1071 at the time. I decided not to take my own CPP pension at the age of 60 and will wait until I reach the age of 65. So… when I reach 65, will my husband’s CPP still be \$1071 or will it have increased in conjunction with the yearly maximum amounts in addition to inflation adjustments? When he passed away he was 59. The reason I ask is because I’m trying to figure out what amount of 60 percent to use.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Celia – If I’m understanding you correctly, when your husband passed away in 2018 his SOC estimate showed that his CPP at age 65 would have been \$1,071. If so, that means that your survivor’s pension at that time was approx \$590 (\$1,071 x 37.5% + \$189) and it would now have increased to approx \$639. If this is correct, then the \$1,071 would have grown by inflation to approx \$1,158, using the same increase rate as your survivor’s pension (ie, \$1,071 x \$639/\$590) and your over-age-65 survivor’s pension would be 60% of that = \$695. Does this answer your question?

150. Brenda

The combining of the CPP Survivor benefit and the CPP Retirement benefit was a question I asked at many a pension meeting and was never answered. Thank-you for explaining and ending some of the mystery. I really don’t understand why there has to be a reduction at all when combining. My husband worked and contributed to CPP. He died at 56 so therefore never collected on it. The government already reduced what would have been paid to him had he lived by %40 in what they are paying me as the survivor. The CPP Retirement pension that I am entitled to I worked for as well. The calculation should simply be CPP Survivor benefit plus CPP Retirement benefit of not more than the maximum CPP retirement pension. While I am happy to finally have the answers I am very disappointed.

151. Sharron

Thank you for your work Doug!

I have a basic question which I can’t seem to find an answer to on government websites. Will a surviving spouse receive survivor benefits if the deceased contributor dies before collecting any CPP? For example, if the deceased spouse was only age 64 at the time of death and didn’t take early CPP, would their surviving spouse still receive survivor benefits?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Sharron – The reason why you can’t find any information about this is because whether or not someone has started to receive their CPP prior to death is not a factor in determining the eligibility or entitlement of a CPP survivor’s pension. It’s similar to why you’ll never see any mention of whether owning your home will affect CPP survivor’s, because again it’s simply not a factor.

152. Patrick

Hi Doug, very insightful article. I’m 57, retired and currently receiving about \$600/month from survivor’s benefit (my wife died in 2004). How much can I expect as combined benefits if I start receiving CPP at 60? Many thanks.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Patrick – I can provide this answer (and more) for a fee of \$90 plus GST, if you provide me with your CPP record of earnings (and more). Email me at [email protected] if you are interested in this service.

153. mark

So Andrew gets \$288 out of his wife’s \$800 CPP or 36%. Why are seniors not revolting against this? This is so unfair!

154. Shelly

My spouse and I had been separated for about 11 years and finally got legally divorced just over a year ago. He was collectin CPP disablity. He passed away recently, neither of us were living common law at any time after the soparation or divorce. Is there a CPP survivor’s pension in situation?

• Doug Runchey

Unfortunately, the divorce ended all possible CPP survivor’s pension eligibility.

155. Debbie

So Doug are you saying I’ll make more money by not applying for the survivor benefit

• Doug Runchey

No, you will never receive less by applying for a survivor’s benefit. The trick is understanding how it affects when you take your own CPP retirement pension.

156. sharon

i left a common law relationship . we were living together for over 7 year Sept 2015 – oct 2022.
He owes a construction company and is well to do . his salary is unknown to me . he could be running the company at a loss ? butowns 5 houses . he started collecting his cpp at 60 . he is 63 My address is still at his place because we tried to reunite for months after break up , but now i know for sure we are done . am i entitled to any of his cpp? how would i go about getting this.,if so. I presently work for time at age 56 and collect a survivors benefit of 450 from my deceased husband. . Am i entitled to anything cpp wise from him. He never declared me common law but my address was the same as his for 7-8 years . Is there anything else i can be entitled to ? i maake 72,000 a year and plan to work until at least 65 plus now due to the situation. we met when i was 46 . he was 53.

157. Will

Hi Doug,

I am clear that a CPP Survivorship Benefit is based on the deceased CPP benefit at age 65 regardless of what age they take CPP.

However in the Survivor side I am very foggy on how much they can absorb. For example, it is very easy to see that if the survivor took their CPP at age 65, the maximum combined monthly benefit is the regular CPP maximum benefit. But for a survivor that took CPP at age 70 what is the maximum survivor benefit they can have? Is it the maximum CPP benefit at age 65 x 1.42 minus their actual benefit?

Does taking CPP at 70 increase their potential bucket to absorb more of the survivor benefit? Or does taking CPP at age 70 actually harm them by increasing their personal CPP while not increasing their potential combined bucket?

• Doug Runchey

Hi Will – Delaying your CPP beyond age 65 has absolutely no impact on the amount of survivor’s pension that you can receive in combination with your retirement pension. The maximum survivor’s benefit will always be “an amount that when added to their unadjusted retirement pension (meaning prior to their age-adjustment increase for deferring) equals the age-65 maximum”. Because deferring your CPP
beyond age 65 increases your retirement pension without reducing your survivor’s pension, it effectively increases your maximum combined benefit to as much as 142% of the age-65 maximum.

158. Stefan

I am delaying my retirement past 65. My CPP now @65 would be about \$700. If I understand correctly, if my spouse survives me ( she is younger and has about \$500 cpp at 65, based on current income) her survivor benefit would only be higher for every year I work after 65, only because the extra year of better earnings. The 8.4% yearly bonus I receive for retiring later, would not affect her survivor benefit in any way.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Stefan – Yes, you are correct in saying that the 8.4% annual increase for deferring the CPP will not affect the amount of an survivor’s benefit that your wife will receive after your death, but if you did have additional earnings/contributions after age 65 this might increase the survivor’s benefit amount.

159. Stefan

I went back and read all the comments. Please confirm that this rule is correct, I think it would make it understandable for a lot of people: Once you reach 65, the amount of survivor pension used to calculate your spouse’s entitlement would be “frozen” ( ignoring inflation adjustments). So no matter when I decide to start CPP, or if I continue working or not, the amount will not change.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Stefan – This is partly true. When you decide to start your CPP does not directly affect the amount of the survivor’s pension, but if you don’t take your CPP and you continue to work and contribute, those extra earnings could impact your survivor’s pension somewhat.

• Stefan

What I meant is that her working later, means that she is accumulating the 8.4% bonus per year. Based on the article, this increases the maximum CPP amount also. This could make room for some extra survivor benefit, if the actual survivor benefit was capped because the total reached the maximum CPP when calculated.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Stefan – Working after age 65 doesn’t create the 8.4% increase in the CPP, but it could increase the calculated amount of the retirement pension which could decrease the combined survivor’s pension, but it could never increase the combined survivor’s pension.

160. Stefan

Here is another rule that I would like to confirm: If I die first when my wife is already 65, her survivor pension will be calculated at that time. If she continues working till 70 ( that could increase her maximum CPP) Will the survivor portion increase?

• Doug Runchey

I’m not sure that I really understand what this rule is trying to establish, but whether or not the surviving spouse works until age 70 would never increase the survivor’s pension that they would be eligible for. In fact, working until age 70 could actually decrease the amount of her survivor’s pension if those earnings increase her base CPP retirement pension, due to the combined benefit rules.

161. Stefan

When I tried to find out the rules governing the OSAP for students, I discovered that there is a manual that describes all the rules with examples. It is used by staff for training. It is not available to the public, unless you submit an Access to the Information Act request and pay the fee. Is there something similar for CPP.

• Doug Runchey

Hi Stefan – I haven’t even seen this manual for OAS, but I am unaware of any such publication regarding CPP.

• Stefan

So where did the government published all these calculations?

• Doug Runchey

These calculations are published in the CPP legislation.

162. M Newton

Receiving ~\$1400 a month pension is not enough to cover the cost of living. So this is why it is people on to the street to live in a tent.
The USA has a much better support system for pensioners close to \$3000 a month that at least puts a roof over your head

163. mark

Are there any situations where the survivor (age 60+ with their own CPP active) could receive significantly more than 36% of the deceased’s CPP?

164. Mari

Hi Doug, I was in a common-law relationship for 9 years and we have one child together. We separated in 2017 and my former spouse passed away 2022. He did not re-marry or enter into another common-law relationship after our separation. He was 53 years old when he passed away and was receiving CPP Disability. I am currently 51 years old. I recently applied for the survivor’s benefit and am waiting on a decision. Am I entitled to receive a survivor’s benefit given that we were legally separated since 2017? Does service Canada base their decision on income level?